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tv   The Engineers  BBC News  July 24, 2021 7:30am-8:01am BST

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they first metals of the tokyo olympics have been won. china's yang qian took gold in the women's ten metres our rifle event. russia's anastacia galazcina came second. another ten medals are up for grabs on day one of the games. president biden has warned the united states is facing a pandemic of the unvaccinated, as the delta variant of coronavirus spreads rapidly in areas where the uptake ofjabs has been low. mr biden said virtually all hospitalisations and deaths were among people who haven't been vaccinated. the funeral of the assassinated haitian president jovenal moise has taken place in heavy security in his native northern region. outside the family compound, police fired shots and tear gas at protesters voicing anger at the president's murder.
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now on bbc news, three engineers leading the field in clean energy solutions come together for a special event presented by kevin fong at the victoria and albert museum, london. hello, i'm kevin fong, and welcome to the engineers' mclean energy. we are here at the victoria and albert museum in london with a socially distance to public audience, and a virtual audience from around the globe, and three of the world's leading engineers. now, the climate catastrophe threatens all of us, but these engineers are at the forefront of providing our world with real solutions.
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applause. please welcome henry snape, professor of physics at oxford, and three of his engineering of low—cost photovoltaics, he discovered a thin film of photocells. it could be a hugely distant —— significant discovery, as henry hopes it will eventually double the efficiency of solar power and halve the cost. daniel murphy old —— danielle mirfield is an electrical engineer he was chief technology and vice president of ge renewables. to implement is the biggest creator of wind turbines worldwide, and she had a team currently have over 40,000 wind turbines out in the field. she is joining us by video link from north carolina, usa. christian eichmann home field is here from norway after braving ten days of quarantine on arrival in the uk. christian is at the forefront of efforts to develop battery—powered ships and as project director of fuel cells at corvus
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energy. wind, solar batteries, ships. please welcome our panel. applause. so, we are going to start with talking about where we are now, and i wanted to start with you, danielle. before we get started on the solutions, can we outline the challenge here? the international governmental panel on climate change has said that in order to avoid the worst ravages of the heating associated with climate change we need renewable resources like solar and wind to provide 85% of global electricity by 2050. but where are we now? what is the scale of the challenge that faces us? danielle, tell me a bit about how close we are 85% target?— 85% target? well, the good news is that wind and _ 85% target? well, the good news is that wind and solar— 85% target? well, the good news is that wind and solar power— 85% target? well, the good news is that wind and solar power have - that wind and solar power have doubled in the last five years due to their plummeting costs. now, nearlyi cent to their plummeting costs. now, nearly i cent of the world's electricity comes from wind and solar together. electricity comes from wind and solartogether. if electricity comes from wind and solar together. if i think about it from the wind prospect, at roughly 8%, we have to get 40 plus, 40— 50%.
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that is a huge leap from where we are today, to meet our net zero goals by 2050. 50 are today, to meet our net zero goals by 2050-_ are today, to meet our net zero goals by 2050. so lots of work yet to do. let goals by 2050. so lots of work yet to do- let me _ goals by 2050. so lots of work yet to do. let me turn _ goals by 2050. so lots of work yet to do. let me turn to _ goals by 2050. so lots of work yet to do. let me turn to henry. - goals by 2050. so lots of work yet to do. let me turn to henry. let's| to do. let me turn to henry. let's talk a bit about solar. solar panels use silicon. can you explain how the technology works, and what its limitations are in helping us reach the goal but danielle just outlined? so, silicon is a semiconductor. that is the _ so, silicon is a semiconductor. that is the material used to absorb sunlight — is the material used to absorb sunlight and generate electricity and a _ sunlight and generate electricity and a solar cell. it works by absorbing sunlight, particles of sunlight, — absorbing sunlight, particles of sunlight, which we call photons. they— sunlight, which we call photons. they carry — sunlight, which we call photons. they carry energy. they are absorbed in the _ they carry energy. they are absorbed in the silicon. — they carry energy. they are absorbed in the silicon, and what they do is, they give _ in the silicon, and what they do is, they give electrons in and extra kinetic— they give electrons in and extra kinetic energy, the energy from the photons _ kinetic energy, the energy from the photons transferring to the electrons, and those electrons, would _ electrons, and those electrons, would that energy, can move around, and they— would that energy, can move around, and they are — would that energy, can move around, and they are freed from the lattice was about— and they are freed from the lattice was about freed from being bound and localised _ was about freed from being bound and localised. that is the current, innocence _ localised. that is the current, innocence. those moving electrons. if innocence. those moving electrons. if we _ innocence. those moving electrons. if we contact — innocence. those moving electrons. if we contact the silicon on either side we _ if we contact the silicon on either
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side we can— if we contact the silicon on either side we can extract in an external circuit— side we can extract in an external circuit and — side we can extract in an external circuit and generate current and voltage — circuit and generate current and voltage from the material. now, in terms _ voltage from the material. now, in terms of— voltage from the material. now, in terms of the limitations, if we look at the _ terms of the limitations, if we look at the optimum efficiency, a single solar— at the optimum efficiency, a single solar absorbent material could be, like silicon. — solar absorbent material could be, like silicon, they top out at about 25%~ _ like silicon, they top out at about 25%~ that — like silicon, they top out at about 25%. that is really the practical lirnit _ 25%. that is really the practical limit for— 25%. that is really the practical limit for an— 25%. that is really the practical limit for an actual solar panel today's— limit for an actual solar panel today's silicon technology. 30, limit for an actual solar panel today's silicon technology. so, i am heafina today's silicon technology. so, i am hearing six. — today's silicon technology. so, i am hearing six, seven, _ today's silicon technology. so, i am hearing six, seven, 8% _ today's silicon technology. so, i am hearing six, seven, 8% from - hearing six, seven, 8% from danielle. i am hearing six, seven, 8% from danielle. iam hearing hearing six, seven, 8% from danielle. i am hearing 20% from you. we're not quite at that 85%. and all of this energy that we generate is, it needs storing, doesn't it? so, christian, i know that you are a man of the fjords and boats and ships have been a constant thread throughout your life, even before you became a marine engineer. 90% of the world's trade travels by sea. as well as 3% of the world's greenhouse gases, it is estimated nearly half a million people die prematurely every year from the million people die prematurely every yearfrom the air million people die prematurely every year from the air pollution created by ships. your company created the world's first fully electric ship, a
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battery—operated ferry which has travelled the equivalent of eight times around the equator since it was launched in 2015. but what are the challenges in scaling up to ships that actually circumnavigate the globe? ships that actually circumnavigate the lobe? ., ~' , ships that actually circumnavigate the lobe? ., ,, , . ., , the globe? one of the key challenges here is being — the globe? one of the key challenges here is being able _ the globe? one of the key challenges here is being able to _ the globe? one of the key challenges here is being able to fit _ the globe? one of the key challenges here is being able to fit that - here is being able to fit that amount— here is being able to fit that amount of— here is being able to fit that amount of energy _ here is being able to fit that amount of energy or- here is being able to fit that l amount of energy or batteries here is being able to fit that - amount of energy or batteries that you need _ amount of energy or batteries that you need inside _ amount of energy or batteries that you need inside a _ amount of energy or batteries that you need inside a vessel. - amount of energy or batteries that you need inside a vessel. what- amount of energy or batteries that you need inside a vessel. what wej you need inside a vessel. what we have _ you need inside a vessel. what we have done — you need inside a vessel. what we have done now. _ you need inside a vessel. what we have done now, we _ you need inside a vessel. what we have done now, we started - you need inside a vessel. what we have done now, we started with l you need inside a vessel. what we. have done now, we started with the smaller— have done now, we started with the smaller vessels, _ have done now, we started with the smallervessels, or— have done now, we started with the smaller vessels, or the _ have done now, we started with the smaller vessels, or the vessels - have done now, we started with the smaller vessels, or the vessels that io smaller vessels, or the vessels that go back— smaller vessels, or the vessels that go back and — smaller vessels, or the vessels that go back and forth _ smaller vessels, or the vessels that go back and forth a _ smaller vessels, or the vessels that go back and forth a lot, _ smaller vessels, or the vessels that go back and forth a lot, such - smaller vessels, or the vessels that go back and forth a lot, such as - smaller vessels, or the vessels that go back and forth a lot, such as the| go back and forth a lot, such as the ferry. _ go back and forth a lot, such as the ferry. that — go back and forth a lot, such as the ferry. that ferry— go back and forth a lot, such as the ferry, that ferry in _ go back and forth a lot, such as the ferry, that ferry in itself— go back and forth a lot, such as the ferry, that ferry in itself has - go back and forth a lot, such as the ferry, that ferry in itself has the - ferry, that ferry in itself has the same _ ferry, that ferry in itself has the same amount— ferry, that ferry in itself has the same amount of— ferry, that ferry in itself has the same amount of battery - ferry, that ferry in itself has the same amount of battery is - ferry, that ferry in itself has the same amount of battery is 25. ferry, that ferry in itself has the - same amount of battery is 25 teslas. and that _ same amount of battery is 25 teslas. and that is _ same amount of battery is 25 teslas. and that is not — same amount of battery is 25 teslas. and that is not a _ same amount of battery is 25 teslas. and that is not a lot— same amount of battery is 25 teslas. and that is not a lot of— same amount of battery is 25 teslas. and that is not a lot of battery, - and that is not a lot of battery, but it _ and that is not a lot of battery, but it is— and that is not a lot of battery, but it is a — and that is not a lot of battery, but it is a lot, _ and that is not a lot of battery, but it is a lot, it— and that is not a lot of battery, but it is a lot, it is— and that is not a lot of battery, but it is a lot, it is enough- and that is not a lot of battery, but it is a lot, it is enough to l and that is not a lot of battery, | but it is a lot, it is enough to go back— but it is a lot, it is enough to go back and — but it is a lot, it is enough to go back and forth _ but it is a lot, it is enough to go back and forth across _ but it is a lot, it is enough to go back and forth across a - but it is a lot, it is enough to go back and forth across a fjord - but it is a lot, it is enough to go back and forth across a fjord in. back and forth across a fjord in charge — back and forth across a fjord in charge every— back and forth across a fjord in charge every time _ back and forth across a fjord in charge every time you - back and forth across a fjord in charge every time you go - back and forth across a fjord in charge every time you go back| back and forth across a fjord in - charge every time you go back and forth _ charge every time you go back and forth this— charge every time you go back and forth this is— charge every time you go back and forth. this is fairly _ charge every time you go back and forth. this is fairly unique - charge every time you go back and forth. this is fairly unique to - forth. this is fairly unique to ferries, _ forth. this is fairly unique to ferries, going _ forth. this is fairly unique to ferries, going back- forth. this is fairly unique to ferries, going back and - forth. this is fairly unique toi ferries, going back and forth, forth. this is fairly unique to - ferries, going back and forth, and a lot of— ferries, going back and forth, and a lot of larger— ferries, going back and forth, and a lot of larger ships _ ferries, going back and forth, and a lot of larger ships are _ ferries, going back and forth, and a lot of larger ships are travelling - lot of larger ships are travelling longer— lot of larger ships are travelling longer distances. _ lot of larger ships are travelling longer distances. so— lot of larger ships are travelling longer distances. so you - lot of larger ships are travelling longer distances. so you need i lot of larger ships are travelling i longer distances. so you need to scale _ longer distances. so you need to scale up — longer distances. so you need to scale up the _ longer distances. so you need to scale up the battery, _ longer distances. so you need to scale up the battery, becoming i longer distances. so you need to - scale up the battery, becoming more powered _ scale up the battery, becoming more powered dance — scale up the battery, becoming more powered dance inside _ scale up the battery, becoming more powered dance inside a _ scale up the battery, becoming more powered dance inside a vessel, - scale up the battery, becoming more powered dance inside a vessel, and i powered dance inside a vessel, and then you _ powered dance inside a vessel, and then you also — powered dance inside a vessel, and then you also need _ powered dance inside a vessel, and then you also need to _ powered dance inside a vessel, and then you also need to look- powered dance inside a vessel, and then you also need to look at - powered dance inside a vessel, and then you also need to look at other| then you also need to look at other energy— then you also need to look at other energy solutions, _ then you also need to look at other energy solutions, you _ then you also need to look at other energy solutions, you are - then you also need to look at other energy solutions, you are looking l then you also need to look at otheri energy solutions, you are looking at
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hydrogen _ energy solutions, you are looking at hydrogen based _ energy solutions, you are looking at hydrogen based fuel— energy solutions, you are looking at hydrogen based fuel coming - energy solutions, you are looking at hydrogen based fuel coming off- energy solutions, you are looking at hydrogen based fuel coming off the| hydrogen based fuel coming off the energy— hydrogen based fuel coming off the energy from — hydrogen based fuel coming off the energy from wind _ hydrogen based fuel coming off the energy from wind or— hydrogen based fuel coming off the energy from wind or solar, - hydrogen based fuel coming off the energy from wind or solar, and - hydrogen based fuel coming off the| energy from wind or solar, and then you employ— energy from wind or solar, and then you employ both _ energy from wind or solar, and then you employ both the _ energy from wind or solar, and then you employ both the batteries - energy from wind or solar, and then you employ both the batteries and i you employ both the batteries and the fuel— you employ both the batteries and the fuel and — you employ both the batteries and the fuel and fuel— you employ both the batteries and the fuel and fuel cells _ you employ both the batteries and the fuel and fuel cells together. i the fuel and fuel cells together. thank— the fuel and fuel cells together. thank you _ the fuel and fuel cells together. thank you. danielle, _ the fuel and fuel cells together. thank you. danielle, i— the fuel and fuel cells together. thank you. danielle, i want- the fuel and fuel cells together. thank you. danielle, i want to l the fuel and fuel cells together. - thank you. danielle, i want to come back to you, to hear about your latest prototype winter than, the heliad x, unveiled in 2019. it is a monster of a machine, this thing. and i want you to describe for me it's and i want you to describe for me its scale and its efficiency, and how you get it to work. 50. it's scale and its efficiency, and how you get it to work. so, they hefiad how you get it to work. so, they heliad x is _ how you get it to work. so, they heliad x is the _ how you get it to work. so, they heliad x is the world's _ how you get it to work. so, they heliad x is the world's most - heliad x is the world's most powerful instrument in operation today. it is offshore. it has a 14 megawatts capacity. and the rotor, so the distance from blade tip to blade tip, is 220 metres. so, each blade tip, is 220 metres. so, each blade is longer than the wingspan of the largest aircraft in the world. each spin of one of those blades can power a typical household for more than two days. so, a typical wind farm can power about1 million
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households, and so this is incredibly important in terms of being able to move to more wind power, more efficient offshore wind, and with every one of these turbines but goes out you are saving about 50,000 metric tons of co2, which is like taking 11,000 vehicles off the road. . , , , like taking 11,000 vehicles off the road. . ,, y,y road. that is pretty, pretty impressive. _ road. that is pretty, pretty impressive. henry, - road. that is pretty, pretty impressive. henry, look, l road. that is pretty, pretty impressive. henry, look, i| road. that is pretty, pretty - impressive. henry, look, iwant to turn back to solar for a second. props kite is the material you have been working on. —— perovskite. what is it, and why is it such an improvement for the revolution of sova power?— improvement for the revolution of sova power? perovskite is a crystal structure. one _ sova power? perovskite is a crystal structure. one of _ sova power? perovskite is a crystal structure. one of the _ sova power? perovskite is a crystal structure. one of the unique - sova power? perovskite is a crystal. structure. one of the unique aspects of them _ structure. one of the unique aspects of them is _ structure. one of the unique aspects of them is because they are composed of them is because they are composed of three _ of them is because they are composed of three different irons, we can actually— of three different irons, we can actually change the composition of these _ actually change the composition of these islands and that changes the core properties and the electronic properties— core properties and the electronic properties of this material. —— ions — properties of this material. —— ions this _ properties of this material. —— ions. this means instead of using a single _ ions. this means instead of using a single material to absorb the sunlight, we can actually turn the perovskite — sunlight, we can actually turn the perovskite to absorb in different
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regions — perovskite to absorb in different regions and stuck these materials on top of— regions and stuck these materials on top of each _ regions and stuck these materials on top of each other. now, the stacking of solar— top of each other. now, the stacking of solar cells on top of each other, we call— of solar cells on top of each other, we call it— of solar cells on top of each other, we call it a — of solar cells on top of each other, we call it a multi— junctions, and the simplest multi— junction is a tandem — the simplest multi— junction is a tandem cell, two solar cells on top of each _ tandem cell, two solar cells on top of each other, and the perovskite, we continued that to match perfectly silicon _ we continued that to match perfectly silicon it _ we continued that to match perfectly silicon. it absorbs only the visible li-ht silicon. it absorbs only the visible light and — silicon. it absorbs only the visible light and we left the silicon absorb all the _ light and we left the silicon absorb all the infrared. and light and we left the silicon absorb allthe infrared. and in doing light and we left the silicon absorb all the infrared. and in doing that we actually fundamentally improve the efficiencies. we made a perfect perovskite — the efficiencies. we made a perfect perovskite on silicon and tandem cell, _ perovskite on silicon and tandem cell, that — perovskite on silicon and tandem cell, that would top out at about 45%~ _ cell, that would top out at about 45%~ so — cell, that would top out at about 45%. so we fundamentally lifted the ceiling _ 45%. so we fundamentally lifted the ceiling if_ 45%. so we fundamentally lifted the ceiling. if we went one step further, _ ceiling. if we went one step further, to anotherjunction, a triple — further, to anotherjunction, a triple junction, three junctions, but would — triple junction, three junctions, but would top out at about 50%. so what perovskite does is lift the ceiling — what perovskite does is lift the ceiling for potential efficiency and -ive ceiling for potential efficiency and give us _ ceiling for potential efficiency and give us a — ceiling for potential efficiency and give us a new path forward to go to higher— give us a new path forward to go to higher and — give us a new path forward to go to higherand higher give us a new path forward to go to higher and higher efficiency. 30 higher and higher efficiency. sr substantial higher and higher efficiency. 5r substantial gains in efficiency here, how close is this to being a
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real technology? here, how close is this to being a realtechnology? is here, how close is this to being a real technology? is this now, or is in the future?— in the future? this is very near term. in the future? this is very near term- you _ in the future? this is very near term. you cannot _ in the future? this is very near term. you cannot go _ in the future? this is very near term. you cannot go out - in the future? this is very near term. you cannot go out todayj in the future? this is very near - term. you cannot go out today and by perovskite _ term. you cannot go out today and by perovskite solar cells. but we are building _ perovskite solar cells. but we are building a — perovskite solar cells. but we are building a production line at the moment, — building a production line at the moment, we are talking about next year when — moment, we are talking about next year when the first cells and modules— year when the first cells and modules will be in production and will start— modules will be in production and will start to be deployed in the world — will start to be deployed in the world. so _ will start to be deployed in the world. , , will start to be deployed in the world, , , ., will start to be deployed in the world. , ., . world. so this is all fantastic, this is state _ world. so this is all fantastic, this is state technology - world. so this is all fantastic, this is state technology and l this is state technology and engineering that is market ready or nearly market ready. is the message i should get that you are going to gallop to my rescue when it comes to climate change? i can carry on my life as i always have, and everything is going to be fine, because the engineers are going to sort it all out? is that what i should be taking away from this? that isn't what you should be taking away, but you should feel encouraged that they can be solutions. but away, but you should feel encouraged that they can be solutions.— that they can be solutions. but we all need not _ that they can be solutions. but we all need not make _ that they can be solutions. but we all need not make it _ that they can be solutions. but we all need not make it as _ that they can be solutions. but we all need not make it as a - all need not make it as a challenging road ahead. there is a lot of— challenging road ahead. there is a lot of scale — challenging road ahead. there is a lot of scale that needs to happen from _ lot of scale that needs to happen from the — lot of scale that needs to happen from the industry, and we all need
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to embrace — from the industry, and we all need to embrace it, and embrace this change — to embrace it, and embrace this change. the technology is there, but if it doesn't _ change. the technology is there, but if it doesn't get employed and deployed it is not going to work. thank— deployed it is not going to work. thank you — deployed it is not going to work. thank you. christian?— deployed it is not going to work. thank you. christian? accepting what is happening — thank you. christian? accepting what is happening on _ thank you. christian? accepting what is happening on that _ thank you. christian? accepting what is happening on that side, _ thank you. christian? accepting what is happening on that side, as - thank you. christian? accepting what is happening on that side, as henry l is happening on that side, as henry mentions, — is happening on that side, as henry mentions, is— is happening on that side, as henry mentions, is crucial. _ is happening on that side, as henry mentions, is crucial. and _ is happening on that side, as henry mentions, is crucial. and then- is happening on that side, as henry mentions, is crucial. and then an . mentions, is crucial. and then an aspect— mentions, is crucial. and then an aspect that — mentions, is crucial. and then an aspect that l _ mentions, is crucial. and then an aspect that i would _ mentions, is crucial. and then an aspect that i would emphasise i mentions, is crucial. and then an aspect that i would emphasise as well as— aspect that i would emphasise as well as that — aspect that i would emphasise as well as that we _ aspect that i would emphasise as well as that we have _ aspect that i would emphasise as well as that we have to _ aspect that i would emphasise as well as that we have to look - aspect that i would emphasise as well as that we have to look at i aspect that i would emphasise as i well as that we have to look at ways -- wasting — well as that we have to look at ways -- wasting energy— well as that we have to look at ways -- wasting energy is _ well as that we have to look at ways —— wasting energy is unacceptable. i —— wasting energy is unacceptable. we can't _ —— wasting energy is unacceptable. we can't waste _ —— wasting energy is unacceptable. we can't waste energy _ —— wasting energy is unacceptable. we can't waste energy in _ —— wasting energy is unacceptable. we can't waste energy in any - —— wasting energy is unacceptable. we can't waste energy in any form | —— wasting energy is unacceptable. l we can't waste energy in any form of action _ we can't waste energy in any form of action so _ we can't waste energy in any form of action so when _ we can't waste energy in any form of action. so when the _ we can't waste energy in any form of action. so when the energy- we can't waste energy in any form of action. so when the energy is - we can't waste energy in any form of action. so when the energy is going i action. so when the energy is going to he _ action. so when the energy is going to be challenging _ action. so when the energy is going to be challenging to _ action. so when the energy is going to be challenging to harvest, - action. so when the energy is going to be challenging to harvest, as - to be challenging to harvest, as large-scale. _ to be challenging to harvest, as large—scale, solving _ to be challenging to harvest, as large—scale, solving parts- to be challenging to harvest, as large—scale, solving parts of. large—scale, solving parts of harvesting _ large—scale, solving parts of harvesting as _ large—scale, solving parts of harvesting as much - large—scale, solving parts of harvesting as much energy. large—scale, solving parts of. harvesting as much energy as large—scale, solving parts of- harvesting as much energy as we can in good _ harvesting as much energy as we can in good ways, — harvesting as much energy as we can in good ways, we _ harvesting as much energy as we can in good ways, we have _ harvesting as much energy as we can in good ways, we have to _ harvesting as much energy as we can in good ways, we have to use - harvesting as much energy as we can in good ways, we have to use that i in good ways, we have to use that energy— in good ways, we have to use that energy as — in good ways, we have to use that energy as efficiently _ in good ways, we have to use that energy as efficiently as _ in good ways, we have to use that energy as efficiently as possible. i energy as efficiently as possible. and before — energy as efficiently as possible. and before we _ energy as efficiently as possible. and before we open _ energy as efficiently as possible. and before we open it— energy as efficiently as possible. and before we open it up- energy as efficiently as possible. and before we open it up to - and before we open it up to questions, danielle, when it comes to the threat that climate change presents to us, who is going to do the heavy lifting? is it going to be the heavy lifting? is it going to be the engineering or is it going to be the engineering or is it going to be the individuals? i the engineering or is it going to be the individuals?— the engineering or is it going to be the individuals? i think the biggest chances the individuals? i think the biggest changes will _ the individuals? i think the biggest changes will happen _ the individuals? i think the biggest changes will happen at _ the individuals? i think the biggest changes will happen at the - the individuals? i think the biggest changes will happen at the country j changes will happen at the country level. there is going to be a need
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for us, in terms of our public policy, to support these kinds of technologies upscale. it will certainly develop and deliver lower cost solutions that are good for the individual, but the biggest challenge ahead of us is not technology, it is public acceptance. it is support for improved permitting and collaboration to ensure that migration patterns for birds are known, and we don't side wind turbines in those areas or windfarms in that space. but they cannot just windfarms in that space. but they cannotjust be a wholesale rejection of this technology, because of the threat of something that would be negative. that collaboration is the real opportunity for us to work together. 50 real opportunity for us to work touether. , ., real opportunity for us to work touether. , , together. so it is a partnership. it is ou together. so it is a partnership. it is you delivering _ together. so it is a partnership. it is you delivering the _ together. so it is a partnership. it is you delivering the technologies j is you delivering the technologies that future possible, and i set up in them and making the right choices to protect us from this growing threat. thank you so much. we will move to questions. this is the engineers, clean energy. we have
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been discussing the future of solar energy, wind power and electrical storage, and i am going to ask who would like to ask a question of any of our clean energy initiatives. hello. i am ajay gambier, i work around _ hello. i am ajay gambier, i work around the — hello. i am ajay gambier, i work around the corner— hello. i am ajay gambier, i work around the corner to _ hello. i am ajay gambier, i work around the corner to grantham l around the corner to grantham institute — around the corner to grantham institute for— around the corner to grantham institute for climate _ around the corner to grantham institute for climate change . around the corner to granthaml institute for climate change and around the corner to grantham - institute for climate change and the environment — institute for climate change and the environment at _ institute for climate change and the environment at imperial— institute for climate change and the environment at imperial college. i. environment at imperial college. i would _ environment at imperial college. i would like — environment at imperial college. i would like to — environment at imperial college. i would like to ask, _ environment at imperial college. i would like to ask, is _ environment at imperial college. i would like to ask, is it— environment at imperial college. i would like to ask, is it a _ environment at imperial college. i would like to ask, is it a surprise l would like to ask, is it a surprise to any— would like to ask, is it a surprise to any of— would like to ask, is it a surprise to any of you _ would like to ask, is it a surprise to any of you that _ would like to ask, is it a surprise to any of you that we _ would like to ask, is it a surprise to any of you that we are - would like to ask, is it a surprise to any of you that we are now. would like to ask, is it a surprise to any of you that we are now in| to any of you that we are now in this world — to any of you that we are now in this world where _ to any of you that we are now in this world where we _ to any of you that we are now in this world where we are - to any of you that we are now in this world where we are seeingl to any of you that we are now in - this world where we are seeing cost competitive — this world where we are seeing cost competitive clean— this world where we are seeing cost competitive clean energy _ this world where we are seeing cost competitive clean energy that - this world where we are seeing cost competitive clean energy that can l competitive clean energy that can compete — competitive clean energy that can compete with _ competitive clean energy that can compete with fossil _ competitive clean energy that can compete with fossil fuels, - competitive clean energy that can compete with fossil fuels, or- competitive clean energy that can compete with fossil fuels, or was| compete with fossil fuels, or was that, _ compete with fossil fuels, or was that, in— compete with fossil fuels, or was that, inyour— compete with fossil fuels, or was that, in your mind, _ compete with fossil fuels, or was that, in your mind, an _ that, in your mind, an inevitability, - that, in your mind, an inevitability, and - that, in your mind, an inevitability, and if. that, in your mind, an| inevitability, and if so, that, in your mind, an - inevitability, and if so, why? i that, in your mind, an inevitability, and if so, why? i am auoin to inevitability, and if so, why? i am going to offer _ inevitability, and if so, why? i am going to offer that _ inevitability, and if so, why? i am going to offer that to _ inevitability, and if so, why? going to offer that to danielle. danielle? . ~ going to offer that to danielle. danielle? ., ,, , ., going to offer that to danielle. danielle? . ~' ,. , , ~' danielle? thank you, yes. i think it was inevitable, _ danielle? thank you, yes. i think it was inevitable, and _ danielle? thank you, yes. i think it was inevitable, and one _ danielle? thank you, yes. i think it was inevitable, and one of - danielle? thank you, yes. i think it was inevitable, and one of the - was inevitable, and one of the reasons why most in this space would say that is that we can see these learning curves of cost reduction over time, learning curves of cost reduction overtime, over decades learning curves of cost reduction over time, over decades of time. in solar, in wind, in battery, in most technical arenas, where a certain doubling, for example, the volume of
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this technology being put out into the world, comes out with the cost reduction. so each curve will have a different rate of learning. solar was a 24% learning curve rate, meaning that for every doubling of solar power volume out in the world, it would be 24% reduction in cost. and as you continue to see volume increase in these technologies, you will continue to see cost reduction. thank you so much, danielle. we will now go to scotland, to alastair, who has a question about nuclear energy. today we got representatives of wind and solar, which are often portrayed as the two examples of clean energy. but there are still huge challenges with the amount of storage required. challenges which are not faced by existing nuclear power technology, something i would argue we really need to prioritise. i wonder if you think nuclear should form a key part of the clean energy mix, and should be a large part of the discussion today, and if not, how do we ensure that we invest in and choose the most effective technologies but by going to make the biggest difference to stopping climate change? i will live that to stopping climate change? i will give that one _
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to stopping climate change? i will give that one over— to stopping climate change? i will give that one over to _ to stopping climate change? i will give that one over to christian. nuclear, it is a fair point, isn't it? we have talked about wind and solar and ways of storing, but nuclear is here. and it could do the job. why aren't we talking about? well, the major worst—case scenario is something that we always look at and worst—case on a solar panel installation, let's they are very worst—case, could be a house burning down _ worst—case, could be a house burning down. worst—case on a windmill could be its _ down. worst—case on a windmill could be its tipping over and crashing something. worst—case. and i'm not saying. _ something. worst—case. and i'm not saying. we _ something. worst—case. and i'm not saying, we engineera something. worst—case. and i'm not saying, we engineer a lot of good safety _ saying, we engineer a lot of good safety barriers, safety solutions, but worst—case is still a massive nuclear— but worst—case is still a massive nuclear reaction. there are however being _ nuclear reaction. there are however being done — nuclear reaction. there are however being done tremendous effort and work on _ being done tremendous effort and work on looking at nuclear options where _ work on looking at nuclear options where that— work on looking at nuclear options where that is not the worst case. so the effort _ where that is not the worst case. so the effort being done there is going to bring _ the effort being done there is going to bring nuclear towards a more
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realistic— to bring nuclear towards a more realistic part of a new energy mix but i _ realistic part of a new energy mix but i think— realistic part of a new energy mix but i think we have seen so many of these _ but i think we have seen so many of these worst—case scenarios happen that the _ these worst—case scenarios happen that the public acceptance to it is going _ that the public acceptance to it is going to — that the public acceptance to it is going to take a long time. you need a long _ going to take a long time. you need a long time — going to take a long time. you need a long time to be fully sure that the worst—case scenario is no longer a nuclear— the worst—case scenario is no longer a nuclear reaction that scales up in a nuclear reaction that scales up in a massive — a nuclear reaction that scales up in a massive meltdown.— a nuclear reaction that scales up in a massive meltdown. thank you. and hen , i a massive meltdown. thank you. and henry. i know — a massive meltdown. thank you. and henry. i know you — a massive meltdown. thank you. and henry, i know you used _ a massive meltdown. thank you. and henry, i know you used to _ a massive meltdown. thank you. and henry, i know you used to formally i henry, i know you used to formally well, you still identify as a physicist but recently you have seen the light and come over to engineering. what do you think about nuclear? why did you go to solar feeling —— physics rather than nuclear physics? fin feeling -- physics rather than nuclear physics?— feeling -- physics rather than nuclear physics? feeling -- physics rather than nuclear -h sics? . , ., ., nuclear physics? on a personal note, i nuclear physics? on a personal note, i considered — nuclear physics? on a personal note, i considered working _ nuclear physics? on a personal note, i considered working infusion - nuclear physics? on a personal note, i considered working infusion rather. i considered working infusion rather than solar at the outset that just seemed too much a long—term challenge, still too far off really mainstream use, and it remains
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today. nuclearfission works, works well. the big challenge is actually one of economics. it doesn't compete one of economics. it doesn't compete on cost. there has to be massive national projects. they firstly have to be done at scale, you can't do a small nuclear, they have to be large and there are big long—term projects and there are big long—term projects and they don't compete on cost. the cost on electricity from nuclear is the only technology that keeps going up the only technology that keeps going up so the plans are getting safer and saved but with that, the cost is actually increasing. so it will cost actually increasing. so it will cost a lot. then you can ask the question even though it costs a lot, do you still need it? another thing with nuclear is it produces constant power very well stopper doesn't do very well at offsetting peaks and troughs of solar and wind. my slightly biased opinion is we need to generate most of our power from solar and wind. certainly hydro where it is in existence and then use production of hydrogen or fuels
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and prior gas—fired turbines if we need them. they can fill the gap for winter power, for instance in the uk where we use the stored hydrogen, you use that as a power source. it is traditional power stations but using green power as the source. i will look for another question in the room. , will look for another question in the room-— will look for another question in the room. , ., ., ,, ., the room. hi, i 'ust want to know about the — the room. hi, ijust want to know about the future _ the room. hi, ijust want to know about the future regarding - the room. hi, ijust want to know. about the future regarding airborne wind turbines. what do you think in the near term there is a future for airborne because google is investing in airborne wind turbine systems after seeing one in germany. what is the future of that technology? irate the future of that technology? we have had land, we have had to see and now we're talking about air turbines. i'm fascinated to hear the answer to this. limit for those who haven't heard about this concept of airborne based wind farms, they are essentially like kites or tethered
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aeroplanes that are released into the very high atmospheres essentially at a very high altitude. they move around in the sky and generate electricity through their emotion. generally they are much more costly than traditional wind or solar. , solar. -- then there is the challenge _ solar. -- then there is the challenge of _ solar. -- then there is the challenge of taking - solar. -- then there is the challenge of taking an - solar. -- then there is the - challenge of taking an efficient power off that kite or aircraft. do i think there will be a niche for this. certainly i don't want to depress anyone's ideas about going after new technologies, but it is very much a smaller opportunity in terms of new potential cost reductions and scale. irate terms of new potential cost reductions and scale. ~ ., ., reductions and scale. we will now go to lndonesia. — reductions and scale. we will now go to indonesia, a _ reductions and scale. we will now go to indonesia, a question _ reductions and scale. we will now go to indonesia, a question about - to indonesia, a question about geothermal energy.— to indonesia, a question about geothermal energy. there are a lot of volcanoes _ geothermal energy. there are a lot of volcanoes here. _ geothermal energy. there are a lot of volcanoes here. how _ geothermal energy. there are a lot of volcanoes here. how can - geothermal energy. there are a lot of volcanoes here. how can you - geothermal energy. there are a lot. of volcanoes here. how can you take energy— of volcanoes here. how can you take energy from — of volcanoes here. how can you take energy from this, from the island of sumatra, _
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energy from this, from the island of sumatra, and what is the risk of inject _ sumatra, and what is the risk of inject king — sumatra, and what is the risk of inject king water to get steam? —— injecting — inject king water to get steam? -- in'ectina. , ., ., , injecting. geothermal energy. christian. _ injecting. geothermal energy. christian, this _ injecting. geothermal energy. christian, this is _ injecting. geothermal energy. christian, this is really - injecting. geothermal energy. christian, this is really the - injecting. geothermal energy. - christian, this is really the mother of all batteries in many ways. what is its potential and why really haven't we spoken about it much today? it haven't we spoken about it much toda ? , ., , today? it definitely has geographical— today? it definitely has geographical potential. today? it definitely has - geographical potential. the locations where it exists and is easy to enter into and harvest so for instance iceland is a great example of geothermal power. they are very close to that and as you say, in indonesia, there is a few different geographical places that are well—suited and those will employ that geothermal power but it will be a challenge to get it up to
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scale where that power also is transmitted to all other places in the world. so having solar panels, wind power located more spread around the world compared to what you have with geothermal power. i think we will see more and more geothermal power on the various locations where it is possible to have it. the risk is, as you mentioned, it is a challenge, and engineering challenge, to handle that amount of heat and energy but it is still fairly soluble. so i think we will see more and more of them. the scale is really hard. it is hard to scale that up to cover huge amount of the world's energy needs. you will cover percentages but you won't cover 100%. the world is a big battery but it is hard to harvest it. i
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is a big battery but it is hard to harvest it— is a big battery but it is hard to harvest it. .., . ,, ., harvest it. i will come back to the room here _ harvest it. i will come back to the room here at _ harvest it. i will come back to the room here at the _ harvest it. i will come back to the room here at the museum - harvest it. i will come back to the room here at the museum and i harvest it. i will come back to the | room here at the museum and see harvest it. i will come back to the i room here at the museum and see if there is any other questions. one to there is any other questions. one to the right there. thank you very much. , . the right there. thank you very much. �* ., ,, ., the right there. thank you very much. , . ,, ., ., ., much. jane sutton from the royal academy of _ much. jane sutton from the royal academy of engineering. - much. jane sutton from the royal academy of engineering. just - much. jane sutton from the royal academy of engineering. just on . much. jane sutton from the royal - academy of engineering. just on your point about— academy of engineering. just on your point about balancing command. there was a _ point about balancing command. there was a lot— point about balancing command. there was a lot of— point about balancing command. there was a lot of chat about a european super— was a lot of chat about a european super grid — was a lot of chat about a european super grid to share renewable electricity and we have even had a presentation from somebody who was looking _ presentation from somebody who was looking at— presentation from somebody who was looking at a _ presentation from somebody who was looking at a global super grid. do you think— looking at a global super grid. do you think that is possible? would it be helpful— you think that is possible? would it be helpful to balance demand in different— be helpful to balance demand in different parts of the world? | be helpfulto balance demand in different parts of the world? i want to let danielle _ different parts of the world? i want to let danielle take _ different parts of the world? i want to let danielle take that _ different parts of the world? i want to let danielle take that one. - to let danielle take that one. lowball sounds like your scale with a quarter of a kilometre wind turbines. what do you think? —— global. i turbines. what do you think? -- ulobal. . ., , , ., global. i am so glad this question was asked because _ global. i am so glad this question was asked because there - global. i am so glad this question was asked because there are - global. i am so glad this question - was asked because there are actually two components to the rollout of significant scale of renewable energy that we haven't talked about. one is the ability to talents those demand changes over time and balance the geography and the weather
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patterns over space by connecting more of our regions together. so the super grid idea, evenjust super grid idea, even just regionally super grid idea, evenjust regionally connecting within a continent, gives us so much more flexibility and resilience and reliability of our grid and reduces the total amount of capacity that we need to have installed, because we are seeing variation that we can tap into if the sun is not shining here, the wind is blowing there. it is —— if it is hot and sunny here, we have hydropower or wind power, in another region. connecting us will be a very big part of that. the second part thatis big part of that. the second part that is quite related is demand response. how can those who are transmitting and distributing the electricity get signals back from homes or cities without the user noticing, reduce the load, either change, turn off the defrost cycle of the freezer for 15 minutes, not even noticeable. reduce the
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temperature of a cooling. these other types of responses that we are going to have that may have to get used to. we are all part of this new electrical system together and having us connected and having their b signals going both ways from generation to load is going to be a part of making it a more efficient system ultimately.— system ultimately. thank you so much. ithink— system ultimately. thank you so much. i think that _ system ultimately. thank you so much. i think that is _ system ultimately. thank you so much. i think that is it _ system ultimately. thank you so much. i think that is it the - much. i think that is it the questions from the audience both here and the vna in london and around the world. thank you so much for those questions. i have one of my own to finish with. very, very briefly. are you optimistic or pessimistic about the portland that is laid down before us of 85% renewable energy to be met in the future, christian? i’m renewable energy to be met in the future, christian?— renewable energy to be met in the future, christian? i'm optimistic we will reach it — future, christian? i'm optimistic we will reach it but _ future, christian? i'm optimistic we will reach it but it _ future, christian? i'm optimistic we will reach it but it will _ future, christian? i'm optimistic we will reach it but it will be _ future, christian? i'm optimistic we will reach it but it will be require i will reach it but it will be require sacrifices in a lot of aspects... public acceptance and the technology we need to develop to solve it.
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thank you for stopping henry. i am over optimistic. _ thank you for stopping henry. i am over optimistic. firstly _ thank you for stopping henry. i am over optimistic. firstly we shouldn'tjust aim for over optimistic. firstly we shouldn't just aim for 85%, over optimistic. firstly we shouldn'tjust aim for 85%, it over optimistic. firstly we shouldn't just aim for 85%, it will be shouldn't just aim for 85%, it will he100% — shouldn't just aim for 85%, it will be 100% by 2050, and i see that very feasibly— be 100% by 2050, and i see that very feasibly happening. we've got 20 years— feasibly happening. we've got 20 years of— feasibly happening. we've got 20 years of continued learning, 30 years— years of continued learning, 30 years by— years of continued learning, 30 years by 2050. by the time we get there. _ years by 2050. by the time we get there. the — years by 2050. by the time we get there, the cost of electricity will be there, the cost of electricity will he so _ there, the cost of electricity will be so much cheaper than today's cost including _ be so much cheaper than today's cost including storage and redistribution. but actually we will see a _ redistribution. but actually we will see a step — redistribution. but actually we will see a step up in wealth across the world _ see a step up in wealth across the world and — see a step up in wealth across the world and many other places coming up world and many other places coming up to— world and many other places coming up to the _ world and many other places coming up to the levels of wealth that we are used — up to the levels of wealth that we are used to in the uk so i actually see this _ are used to in the uk so i actually see this as— are used to in the uk so i actually see this as a _ are used to in the uk so i actually see this as a massively exciting transition _ see this as a massively exciting transition. it is a daunting change but if— transition. it is a daunting change but if we — transition. it is a daunting change but if we embrace it, actually, this is the _ but if we embrace it, actually, this is the next — but if we embrace it, actually, this is the next transition, next step advancement for society and well— being of advancement for society and well—being of humankind. and advancement for society and well-being of humankind. and for the last word, danielle. _ well-being of humankind. and for the last word, danielle. i— well-being of humankind. and for the last word, danielle. i would _ well-being of humankind. and for the last word, danielle. i would say i i last word, danielle. i would say i am very optimistic, _ last word, danielle. i would say i am very optimistic, knowing i last word, danielle. i would say i am very optimistic, knowing that prices _ am very optimistic, knowing that prices will— am very optimistic, knowing that prices will continue _ am very optimistic, knowing that prices will continue to _ am very optimistic, knowing that prices will continue to come i am very optimistic, knowing that i prices will continue to come down, they will— prices will continue to come down, they will he — prices will continue to come down, they will be more _ prices will continue to come down, they will be more people - prices will continue to come down, they will be more people with i prices will continue to come down, . they will be more people with access to technology — they will be more people with access to technology living _ they will be more people with access to technology living better _ they will be more people with access to technology living better lies, - to technology living better lies, bringing —
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to technology living better lies, bringing more _ to technology living better lies, bringing more people _ to technology living better lies, bringing more people out - to technology living better lies, bringing more people out of. to technology living better lies, - bringing more people out of poverty, because, _ bringing more people out of poverty, because, not— bringing more people out of poverty, because, not in— bringing more people out of poverty, because, not in spite _ bringing more people out of poverty, because, not in spite of— bringing more people out of poverty, because, not in spite of this - because, not in spite of this growing _ because, not in spite of this growing amount— because, not in spite of this growing amount of- because, not in spite of this i growing amount of renewable because, not in spite of this - growing amount of renewable energy, creating _ growing amount of renewable energy, creating more — growing amount of renewable energy, creating more jobs, _ growing amount of renewable energy, creating more jobs, internationally. i creating more jobs, internationally. my only— creating more jobs, internationally. my only reservation _ creating more jobs, internationally. my only reservation would - creating more jobs, internationally. my only reservation would be - creating more jobs, internationally. my only reservation would be that i my only reservation would be that there are — my only reservation would be that there are so — my only reservation would be that there are so many— my only reservation would be that there are so many people - my only reservation would be that there are so many people in- my only reservation would be that there are so many people in the l there are so many people in the world _ there are so many people in the world who — there are so many people in the world who either— there are so many people in the world who either think- there are so many people in the world who either think this i there are so many people in the world who either think this is i world who either think this is purely— world who either think this is purely a _ world who either think this is purely a technology- world who either think this is purely a technology issue, i world who either think this is i purely a technology issue, which world who either think this is - purely a technology issue, which is separate _ purely a technology issue, which is separate from _ purely a technology issue, which is separate from their— purely a technology issue, which is separate from their life, _ purely a technology issue, which is separate from their life, or- separate from their life, or something _ separate from their life, or something that _ separate from their life, or something that they- separate from their life, or something that they don'tl separate from their life, or- something that they don't need to think— something that they don't need to think too— something that they don't need to think too much _ something that they don't need to think too much about _ something that they don't need to think too much about or— something that they don't need to think too much about or be - something that they don't need to think too much about or be a - something that they don't need to think too much about or be a part| something that they don't need to l think too much about or be a part of and as— think too much about or be a part of and as i_ think too much about or be a part of and as i mentioned _ think too much about or be a part of and as i mentioned before, - think too much about or be a part of and as i mentioned before, the i and as i mentioned before, the biggest — and as i mentioned before, the biggest challenge _ and as i mentioned before, the biggest challenge is _ and as i mentioned before, the biggest challenge is how- and as i mentioned before, the biggest challenge is how the i and as i mentioned before, the i biggest challenge is how the public accepts— biggest challenge is how the public accepts how— biggest challenge is how the public accepts how we _ biggest challenge is how the public accepts how we manage _ biggest challenge is how the public accepts how we manage to - biggest challenge is how the public accepts how we manage to lobby . biggest challenge is how the public. accepts how we manage to lobby our governments — accepts how we manage to lobby our governments and _ accepts how we manage to lobby our governments and we _ accepts how we manage to lobby our governments and we think— accepts how we manage to lobby our governments and we think about i accepts how we manage to lobby our governments and we think about the j governments and we think about the priorities— governments and we think about the priorities that — governments and we think about the priorities that we _ governments and we think about the priorities that we want _ governments and we think about the priorities that we want to _ governments and we think about the priorities that we want to make - governments and we think about the priorities that we want to make in i priorities that we want to make in our society — priorities that we want to make in our society-— priorities that we want to make in our society. and that's it from the en . ineers our society. and that's it from the engineers clean _ our society. and that's it from the engineers clean energy _ our society. and that's it from the engineers clean energy here i our society. and that's it from the engineers clean energy here at i our society. and that's it from the | engineers clean energy here at the victoria and albert museum in london. on behalf of the bbc world service, our partners, the royal commission to the exhibition of 1851 and all of us here, a huge thank you to our willing engineers, christian, danielle and henry. applause.
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hello. friday brought us the seventh consecutive day with some places are seeing cabbages over 30 degrees but as we head through the weekend, things will turn cooler and fresher, and they will be heavy and thundery downpours for some, particularly the further south you are. we have a ready seen heavy rain pushing in from the south overwrite and during saturday evening we could see heavy showers moving across the southern half of england and wales. some stores moving in if you catch some of the showers but they will be hit and miss later in the day. further north, sunny weather once again but more cloud lurking in the eastern coast of scotland. further heavy showers and thunderstorms in the south but most other places looking
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dry. this area of low pressure responsible for bringing that showery rain is still with us into sunday, quite slow rain —— quite slow—moving. the bulk of the showers will be for southern parts of england, east anglia as well, pat's one or two, dry and bright and not as warm as recent days. 20— 24 degrees. bye—bye.
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this is bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in the uk and around the globe. our top stories... china's golden start — yang qian takes the first gold medal of the tokyo games by winning the women's ten metre air rifle. the men's cycling road race is under way, with crowds lining the street in contradiction of official coronavirus advice. president biden warns that america is facing a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" — as the delta variant of coronavirus spreads. tackling britain's "pingdemic", hundreds more covid testing sites are to be set up across england to ensure essential workers can avoid self—isolation and keep working.

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