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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  July 16, 2021 7:30pm-8:01pm BST

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hello and welcome to the programme. foreign correspondence who from the dateline london. england gets back at freedom from covid restrictions. how long will it last? in cuba and south africa, thousands have taken to the the streets to respect. with me this week are stephanie and
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michael whose blog inns to be the first row draught of history. welcome, james. lovely to see you all again. welcome, james. lovely to see you allagain. monday, welcome, james. lovely to see you all again. monday, will be what borisjohnson calls freedom day, when all legal instructions impose will be lifted. this final stage of unlocking will be irreversible, but now he's not so sure. cases are rising and in india, japan, and vietnam it's rampant. the dutch government announced i think three weeks ago that restrictions will be lifted, and he's not to reimpose some of them. he's even apologised, saying it was a mistake. how worrying a president is that for the uk? i worrying a president is that for the uk? 4' worrying a president is that for the uk? ~ , , �* worrying a president is that for the uk? 4' , , �* ., ., uk? i think this is, i'm afraid, very much _ uk? i think this is, i'm afraid, very much a — uk? i think this is, i'm afraid, very much a precedent - uk? i think this is, i'm afraid, very much a precedent for- uk? i think this is, i'm afraid, very much a precedent for the uk? i think this is, i'm afraid, - very much a precedent for the uk. politically, it has been very
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difficult for him, and i wonder what is next for borisjohnson in that sense. if you look at the netherlands, the reason for this is the delta mutation, because it is far more infectious than the variant we had before, so in the netherlands, there is a slight rise in infection. there were a lot of mass gatherings. there was a music festival aloud again, and you can understand we are all fed up it. there was one not too big music festival, 500 infections. i was covering the euros at wembley, and thinking of 65,000 people in wembley and far more people around, celebrating all over the country, we don't know yet how many infections that will have cost. but on monday, opening the floodgates, i think what we will look at quite ably confection great next week. michael,
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the british are _ confection great next week. michael, the british are fortunate _ confection great next week. michael, the british are fortunate in _ confection great next week. michael, the british are fortunate in that - the british are fortunate in that they are not only —— they can afford and so source vaccine doses. they have a population on the whole has embraced vaccination. that is the argument to say why we are different to what we've seen in the netherlands and elsewhere, but i wonder if there is a potential risk that it's created a false sense of security in the uk. i that it's created a false sense of security in the uk.— security in the uk. i think it has in the government, _ security in the uk. i think it has in the government, and - security in the uk. i think it has| in the government, and certainly security in the uk. i think it has i in the government, and certainly a months _ in the government, and certainly a months conservative backbenchers who probably— months conservative backbenchers who probably disguised themselves as libertarian. but it really is false -- describe _ libertarian. but it really is false —— describe themselves. 57% of the british_ —— describe themselves. 57% of the british population was thinking about— british population was thinking about carrying on with precautions anywax _ about carrying on with precautions anyway. because they are aware that yes, we _ anyway. because they are aware that yes, we have a high vaccination rate and that's_
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yes, we have a high vaccination rate and that's good, but the younger people _ and that's good, but the younger people have not really been vaccinated. this is in distinction to a _ vaccinated. this is in distinction to a lot — vaccinated. this is in distinction to a lot of— vaccinated. this is in distinction to a lot of our allies. you're just going _ to a lot of our allies. you're just going to — to a lot of our allies. you're just going to end up with this delta variant— going to end up with this delta variant running rampant. when stephanie _ variant running rampant. when stephanie was talking about 65,000 people _ stephanie was talking about 65,000 people at— stephanie was talking about 65,000 people at wembley, you're also talking — people at wembley, you're also talking about tens of thousands in downtown manchester not observing social— downtown manchester not observing social distancing. i would expect ten to _ social distancing. i would expect ten to 14 — social distancing. i would expect ten to 14 days, there's going to be an incredible spike. i'm not the only— an incredible spike. i'm not the only one — an incredible spike. i'm not the only one. the secretary of health do so as_ only one. the secretary of health do so as well — only one. the secretary of health do so as well. we're talking about an ally and _ so as well. we're talking about an ally and competitor in the netherlands, but look at israel. israel— netherlands, but look at israel. israel had — netherlands, but look at israel. israel had pretty much talked this thing _ israel had pretty much talked this thing down. normal life had pretty much _ thing down. normal life had pretty much resumed in the middle ofjune
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in tel— much resumed in the middle ofjune in tel aviv, — much resumed in the middle ofjune in tel aviv, and now they are happy because _ in tel aviv, and now they are happy because of— in tel aviv, and now they are happy because of they are starting to reimpose _ because of they are starting to reimpose restrictions. 0ne because of they are starting to reimpose restrictions. one final point, _ reimpose restrictions. one final point, it's— reimpose restrictions. one final point, it's clear and reimpose restrictions. one final point, it's clearand has reimpose restrictions. one final point, it's clear and has always been _ point, it's clear and has always been clear— point, it's clear and has always been clear since january, february 2020 _ been clear since january, february 2020 that — been clear since january, february 2020 that some kind of herd immunity let the _ 2020 that some kind of herd immunity let the thing go wild to the population and people developed natural— population and people developed natural immunity, was of point of view_ natural immunity, was of point of view within— natural immunity, was of point of view within the cabinet. they're doing _ view within the cabinet. they're doing it — view within the cabinet. they're doing it on _ view within the cabinet. they're doing it on the backs of children now _ doing it on the backs of children now. schoolkids are coming to the end of— now. schoolkids are coming to the end of the — now. schoolkids are coming to the end of the term and many schools are shut down _ end of the term and many schools are shutdown. because kids haven't. it's shutdown. because kids haven't. it's going — shutdown. because kids haven't. it's going to continue to flow through— it's going to continue to flow through them throughout the summer. it through them throughout the summer. it wouldn't _ through them throughout the summer. it wouldn't be the first time in history— it wouldn't be the first time in history that borisjohnson has it wouldn't be the first time in history that boris johnson has to backtrack— history that boris johnson has to backtrack with whiffle and waffle, as some — backtrack with whiffle and waffle, as some people call it.— backtrack with whiffle and waffle, as some people call it. james, prior
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to doinu as some people call it. james, prior to doing the — as some people call it. james, prior to doing the diplomatic— as some people call it. james, prior to doing the diplomatic you've - as some people call it. james, prior| to doing the diplomatic you've spent your years at westminster. so you have sense of political background in the kind of thinking. do you think the government is making this move notwithstanding what happens? because and will on will make some ways, they can't be blamed for the choices people make. they would argue in the end, the pandemic to some extent has evangelized people. they want people to take ownership of their own health and their own risk factors. of their own health and their own risk factors— of their own health and their own risk factors-— risk factors. yes they do, but voters throughout _ risk factors. yes they do, but voters throughout the - risk factors. yes they do, but voters throughout the world | risk factors. yes they do, but - voters throughout the world tend to not respond — voters throughout the world tend to not respond very— voters throughout the world tend to not respond very well. _ voters throughout the world tend to not respond very well. if— voters throughout the world tend to not respond very well. if those - not respond very well. if those actions — not respond very well. if those actions don't _ not respond very well. if those actions don't necessarily- not respond very well. if thosej actions don't necessarily work, not respond very well. if those - actions don't necessarily work, they quite _ actions don't necessarily work, they quite often — actions don't necessarily work, they quite often blame _ actions don't necessarily work, they quite often blame their— actions don't necessarily work, theyl quite often blame their government. they still— quite often blame their government. they still get — quite often blame their government. they still get the _ quite often blame their government. they still get the blame _ quite often blame their government. they still get the blame anyway. - they still get the blame anyway. later on. the government is under pressure _ later on. the government is under pressure politically— later on. the government is under pressure politically from _ pressure politically from backbenchers _ pressure politically from backbenchers and - pressure politically from backbenchers and also l pressure politically from _ backbenchers and also economically from businesses. _ backbenchers and also economically from businesses. what's— backbenchers and also economically from businesses. what's happenedl backbenchers and also economically. from businesses. what's happened is that they— from businesses. what's happened is that they have — from businesses. what's happened is that they have allowed _ from businesses. what's happened is that they have allowed the _ from businesses. what's happened is that they have allowed the narrative. that they have allowed the narrative
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to become _ that they have allowed the narrative to become this _ that they have allowed the narrative to become this extraordinary - that they have allowed the narrativel to become this extraordinary phrase, freedom _ to become this extraordinary phrase, freedom day — to become this extraordinary phrase, freedom day. this _ to become this extraordinary phrase, freedom day-— freedom day. this is a word the prime minister _ freedom day. this is a word the prime minister use, _ freedom day. this is a word the prime minister use, it's - freedom day. this is a word the prime minister use, it's not - prime minister use, its not something journalists made up. it was a phrase he was using. bud something journalists made up. it was a phrase he was using. and the oint is was a phrase he was using. and the point is that — was a phrase he was using. and the point is that the _ was a phrase he was using. and the point is that the lesson _ was a phrase he was using. and the point is that the lesson that - was a phrase he was using. and the point is that the lesson that is - point is that the lesson that is obvious— point is that the lesson that is obvious to _ point is that the lesson that is obvious to everyone _ point is that the lesson that is obvious to everyone around i point is that the lesson that is. obvious to everyone around the point is that the lesson that is - obvious to everyone around the world is this— obvious to everyone around the world is this pandemic— obvious to everyone around the world is this pandemic is _ obvious to everyone around the world is this pandemic is something - obvious to everyone around the world is this pandemic is something we - obvious to everyone around the world is this pandemic is something we are | is this pandemic is something we are going _ is this pandemic is something we are going to _ is this pandemic is something we are going to have — is this pandemic is something we are going to have to _ is this pandemic is something we are going to have to get _ is this pandemic is something we are going to have to get used _ is this pandemic is something we are going to have to get used to - is this pandemic is something we are going to have to get used to and - is this pandemic is something we are going to have to get used to and wel going to have to get used to and we are going _ going to have to get used to and we are going to— going to have to get used to and we are going to he_ going to have to get used to and we are going to be rolling _ going to have to get used to and we are going to be rolling with - going to have to get used to and we are going to be rolling with it- going to have to get used to and we are going to be rolling with it and i are going to be rolling with it and we are _ are going to be rolling with it and we are going _ are going to be rolling with it and we are going to— are going to be rolling with it and we are going to have _ are going to be rolling with it and we are going to have to- are going to be rolling with it and we are going to have to change. i are going to be rolling with it and l we are going to have to change. we sometimes — we are going to have to change. we sometimes have _ we are going to have to change. we sometimes have to _ we are going to have to change. we sometimes have to have _ we are going to have to change. we sometimes have to have are - we are going to have to change. we sometimes have to have are foot i we are going to have to change. wej sometimes have to have are foot on the pedal _ sometimes have to have are foot on the pedal then— sometimes have to have are foot on the pedal then a _ sometimes have to have are foot on the pedal. then a new— sometimes have to have are foot on the pedal. then a new variant - sometimes have to have are foot on the pedal. then a new variant will. the pedal. then a new variant will come _ the pedal. then a new variant will come up — the pedal. then a new variant will come up it's_ the pedal. then a new variant will come up. it's about _ the pedal. then a new variant will come up. it's about government. come up. it's about government learning _ come up. it's about government learning to — come up. it's about government learning to balance _ come up. it's about government learning to balance those - come up. it's about government- learning to balance those competing pressures _ learning to balance those competing pressures of— learning to balance those competing pressures of health _ learning to balance those competing pressures of health and _ learning to balance those competing pressures of health and economy. learning to balance those competingl pressures of health and economy and politics _ pressures of health and economy and politics i_ pressures of health and economy and politics ithink— pressures of health and economy and politics. i think the _ pressures of health and economy and politics. i think the risk— pressures of health and economy and politics. i think the risk is— pressures of health and economy and politics. i think the risk is that - politics. i think the risk is that by allowing _ politics. i think the risk is that by allowing the _ politics. i think the risk is that by allowing the impression i politics. i think the risk is that. by allowing the impression that somehow, _ by allowing the impression that somehow, monday— by allowing the impression that somehow, monday clears i by allowing the impression that somehow, monday clears the l by allowing the impression that i somehow, monday clears the decks by allowing the impression that - somehow, monday clears the decks and its freedom _ somehow, monday clears the decks and its freedom from — somehow, monday clears the decks and its freedom from there _ somehow, monday clears the decks and its freedom from there on, _ somehow, monday clears the decks and its freedom from there on, it _ somehow, monday clears the decks and its freedom from there on, it makes- its freedom from there on, it makes its freedom from there on, it makes it politically — its freedom from there on, it makes it politically harder— its freedom from there on, it makes it politically harder for— its freedom from there on, it makes it politically harder for the _ it politically harder for the government— it politically harder for the government to _ it politically harder for the government to reimpose i it politically harder for the i government to reimpose some restrictions— government to reimpose some restrictions in— government to reimpose some restrictions in the _ government to reimpose some restrictions in the future - government to reimpose some restrictions in the future if- government to reimpose some i restrictions in the future if that's what _ restrictions in the future if that's what was — restrictions in the future if that's what was required. _ restrictions in the future if that's what was required. let- restrictions in the future if that's
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what was required.— restrictions in the future if that's what was required. let me bring in both our what was required. let me bring in both your direct _ what was required. let me bring in both your direct experiences i what was required. let me bring in both your direct experiences in i what was required. let me bring in | both your direct experiences in your home countries, stephanie and michael. stephanie first. we obviously heard angela merkel saying she wants them to go into quarantine. now it's not happening in germany either. what's the situation in germany in terms of the domestic side? how are the restrictions being eased could? because there has been a fair resistance, quite a few protests. how are they looking in the run—up to this forthcoming general election? b5 to this forthcoming general election? �* , to this forthcoming general election?— to this forthcoming general election? a to this forthcoming general election? ~ , ., to this forthcoming general election? a ., election? as you say, there are some restrictions — election? as you say, there are some restrictions in — election? as you say, there are some restrictions in place, _ election? as you say, there are some restrictions in place, but— election? as you say, there are some restrictions in place, but very - election? as you say, there are some restrictions in place, but very few, i restrictions in place, but very few, simply because the cases have gone down dramatically. they were very, very low for quite a long time, but now because of the delta mutation, it's also dominant in germany. didn't want anyone to come to the continent. there were many countries
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he resisted that because of the tourism, but also, the chancellor had to understand that it didn't make much sense because delta was already prevalent in germany. there no restrictions now for britt to come into the country. it's a very delicate situation because at the end of september, there is an election. the government will be in the same situation as the british government, which way do you choose now? it's a real dilemma. ithink germans were far more feisty, compared to the uk, and a lot of protests. they did not follow the rules. so, it's a hard task, although she's not extending any more. it's going to be for her successor. more. it's going to be for her successor-— more. it's going to be for her successor. ~ . . , ., , successor. michael, in the states, joe biden was _ successor. michael, in the states, joe biden was talking _ successor. michael, in the states, joe biden was talking a _ successor. michael, in the states, joe biden was talking a lot - successor. michael, in the states, joe biden was talking a lot about | joe biden was talking a lot about the importance of the 4th ofjuly. 0f the importance of the 4th ofjuly. of course, american independence day. 4th ofjuly has been and gone.
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the impression from outside is america is a lot more open than it was even a matter of months ago. well, it is open to foreign tourists _ well, it is open to foreign tourists. as long as you've got tests. — tourists. as long as you've got tests. you _ tourists. as long as you've got tests, you can fly in from britain. but you _ tests, you can fly in from britain. but you have to fly from britain to italy~ _ but you have to fly from britain to italy. you've got to show recent tests~ _ italy. you've got to show recent tests the — italy. you've got to show recent tests. the problem joe biden faces is that— tests. the problem joe biden faces is that everything in america except for time _ is that everything in america except for time of— is that everything in america except for time of day, you have large swathes— for time of day, you have large swathes of the south in the middle of the _ swathes of the south in the middle of the country where there is such resistance — of the country where there is such resistance to vaccination. you have these _ resistance to vaccination. you have these holidays, and it happened at memorial— these holidays, and it happened at memorial day as well. people get together— memorial day as well. people get together in large bunches, and two weeks _ together in large bunches, and two weeks later, there is a spike in a given— weeks later, there is a spike in a given state _ weeks later, there is a spike in a given state. so, he has work cut out for him _ given state. so, he has work cut out
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for him. there's some very good graphics— for him. there's some very good graphics that people can find out there _ graphics that people can find out there on— graphics that people can find out there on the new york times and on google _ there on the new york times and on google that — there on the new york times and on google that show state—by—state, how many people have had double vaccination or at least a single vaccination or at least a single vaccination and where there is very low take—up. so, joe biden's work is actually— low take—up. so, joe biden's work is actually convincing a significant chunk— actually convincing a significant chunk of— actually convincing a significant chunk of the population to get at least _ chunk of the population to get at least one — chunk of the population to get at least one shot. it's a slightly different— least one shot. it's a slightly different situation here in britain, where _ different situation here in britain, where we — different situation here in britain, where we were all rushing and waiting — where we were all rushing and waiting for our phones to ping, going _ waiting for our phones to ping, going back to january. i'm up the road _ going back to january. i'm up the road in — going back to january. i'm up the road. in america, it's entirely different _ road. in america, it's entirely different-— road. in america, it's entirely different. . ., ., , . different. inc. you all very much. we will see _ different. inc. you all very much. we will see only _ different. inc. you all very much. we will see onlyjust _ different. inc. you all very much. we will see onlyjust a _ different. inc. you all very much. we will see onlyjust a few i different. inc. you all very much. we will see onlyjust a few days | different. inc. you all very much. | we will see onlyjust a few days to go. we will see onlyjust a few days to 90- " we will see onlyjust a few days to go. —— thank you. we will be back with dateline next week.
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this week, they've both been consumed by the widespread violence. the consequence was president zuma being convicted of contempt of court. but there's clearly biggest forces at work here. by, court. but there's clearly biggest forces at work here.— forces at work here. a power stru: ale forces at work here. a power struggle with _ forces at work here. a power struggle with all _ forces at work here. a power struggle with all the - forces at work here. a power struggle with all the latent i struggle with all the latent dissatisfaction _ struggle with all the latent dissatisfaction of- struggle with all the latent dissatisfaction of a - struggle with all the latent dissatisfaction of a really l struggle with all the latent i dissatisfaction of a really bad economic— dissatisfaction of a really bad economic experience. - dissatisfaction of a really bad i economic experience. massive unemployment. _ economic experience. massive unemployment, huge - economic experience. massive unemployment, huge any- economic experience. massive i unemployment, huge any quality, poverty. _ unemployment, huge any quality, poverty. plus _ unemployment, huge any quality, poverty. plus the _ unemployment, huge any quality, poverty, plus the ever— unemployment, huge any quality, poverty, plus the ever presence . unemployment, huge any quality, | poverty, plus the ever presence of covid _ poverty, plus the ever presence of covid -- _ poverty, plus the ever presence of covid -- any— poverty, plus the ever presence of covid —— any quality. _ poverty, plus the ever presence of covid —— any quality. and - poverty, plus the ever presence of covid —— any quality. and very- poverty, plus the ever presence of covid —— any quality. and very low| covid —— any quality. and very low vaccination — covid —— any quality. and very low vaccination rates. _ covid —— any quality. and very low vaccination rates. let's— covid —— any quality. and very low vaccination rates. let's be - covid —— any quality. and very low vaccination rates. let's be clear, i vaccination rates. let's be clear, the reports — vaccination rates. let's be clear, the reports coming _ vaccination rates. let's be clear, the reports coming out - vaccination rates. let's be clear, the reports coming out of - vaccination rates. let's be clear, j the reports coming out of africa, it's very— the reports coming out of africa, it's very clear— the reports coming out of africa, it's very clear there _ the reports coming out of africa, it's very clear there was - the reports coming out of africa, it's very clear there was an i the reports coming out of africa, i it's very clear there was an attempt by supporters — it's very clear there was an attempt by supporters of— it's very clear there was an attempt
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by supporters ofjacob _ it's very clear there was an attempt by supporters ofjacob zuma - it's very clear there was an attempt by supporters ofjacob zuma in i by supporters ofjacob zuma in various— by supporters ofjacob zuma in various ways _ by supporters ofjacob zuma in various ways to _ by supporters ofjacob zuma in various ways to try _ by supporters ofjacob zuma in various ways to try and - by supporters ofjacob zuma in i various ways to try and destabilise the government _ various ways to try and destabilise the government. 50 _ various ways to try and destabilise the government.— various ways to try and destabilise the government. so some of it was organised? — the government. so some of it was organised? a _ the government. so some of it was organised? a lot _ the government. so some of it was organised? a lot of— the government. so some of it was organised? a lot of it _ the government. so some of it was organised? a lot of it was - organised? a lot of it was organised- _ organised? a lot of it was organised. it's _ organised? a lot of it was organised. it's also i organised? a lot of it was organised. it's also been | organised? a lot of it was - organised. it's also been specific oil refineries, _ organised. it's also been specific oil refineries, hospitals, - organised. it's also been specific oil refineries, hospitals, specific| oil refineries, hospitals, specific economic— oil refineries, hospitals, specific economic routes— oil refineries, hospitals, specific economic routes where - oil refineries, hospitals, specific economic routes where lorries . oil refineries, hospitals, specific. economic routes where lorries have been _ economic routes where lorries have been it— economic routes where lorries have been it may— economic routes where lorries have been it may be _ economic routes where lorries have been. it may be forced _ economic routes where lorries have been. it may be forced to _ economic routes where lorries have been. it may be forced to release . economic routes where lorries have i been. it may be forced to release mr zuma. _ been. it may be forced to release mr zuma. but— been. it may be forced to release mr zuma. but i've — been. it may be forced to release mr zuma, but i've heard _ been. it may be forced to release mr zuma, but i've heard reports... i been. it may be forced to release mr zuma, but i've heard reports... thisl zuma, but i've heard reports... this was an— zuma, but i've heard reports... this was an active — zuma, but i've heard reports... this was an active insurrection. - zuma, but i've heard reports... this was an active insurrection. it - was an active insurrection. it spiralled _ was an active insurrection. it spiralled out— was an active insurrection. it spiralled out of— was an active insurrection. it spiralled out of control. it i was an active insurrection. iti spiralled out of control. it has was an active insurrection. it i spiralled out of control. it has led to extraordinary— spiralled out of control. it has led to extraordinary economic - spiralled out of control. it has led to extraordinary economic hit i spiralled out of control. it has led to extraordinary economic hit onl to extraordinary economic hit on south _ to extraordinary economic hit on south africa's— to extraordinary economic hit on south africa's economy. - to extraordinary economic hit on i south africa's economy. businesses will be _ south africa's economy. businesses will be incredibly— south africa's economy. businesses will be incredibly hard _ south africa's economy. businesses will be incredibly hard to _ south africa's economy. businesses will be incredibly hard to in—store i will be incredibly hard to in—store -- restore — will be incredibly hard to in—store —— restore. vaccination— will be incredibly hard to in—store —— restore. vaccination centres. will be incredibly hard to in—store i —— restore. vaccination centres have been _ —— restore. vaccination centres have been ripped — —— restore. vaccination centres have been ripped apart. _ —— restore. vaccination centres have been ripped apart. so— —— restore. vaccination centres have been ripped apart, so the _ —— restore. vaccination centres have been ripped apart, so the economy. —— restore. vaccination centres havel been ripped apart, so the economy in the battle _ been ripped apart, so the economy in the battle against _ been ripped apart, so the economy in the battle against covid _
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been ripped apart, so the economy in the battle against covid have - been ripped apart, so the economy in the battle against covid have been i the battle against covid have been damaged — the battle against covid have been damaged by— the battle against covid have been damaged by what's _ the battle against covid have been damaged by what's happened. in. the battle against covid have been damaged by what's happened. in terms ofthe damaged by what's happened. in terms of the situation _ damaged by what's happened. in terms of the situation in _ damaged by what's happened. in terms of the situation in south _ damaged by what's happened. in terms of the situation in south africa, - of the situation in south africa, stephanie, we think of it as the great success story of african politics. here was a minority white racist regime that define people by their colour of their skin, labelled black, coloured white. everything was determined from that point. still in existence up until the late 20th century. a relatively peaceful transition. that confidence in the constitution that saw ramophosa helped to write because he was on the mandela team now looks as though it hasn't delivered to enough people the quality of life that is even the most basic. all those promises it'll come, you just have to be patient, patient seems to run out. ramophosa was a figure — patient seems to run out. ramophosa was a figure of— patient seems to run out. ramophosa was a figure of hope. _
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patient seems to run out. ramophosa was a figure of hope. if— patient seems to run out. ramophosa was a figure of hope. if you _ was a figure of hope. if you remember the term of the rainbow nation and bringing people together, bringing all the at this is talking about social inequality. the other thing saw social inequality, which drives into anger of people. this anger has really been shown in durban. it's really disturbing and shocking, the damage and looting, the violence there and the fear of will it spread. of course, for ramophosa, it's a challenge to prove in the last moment to say he is a figure of hope and he will maintain the rule of law and he will not give into the protests and the pressure from the agency, but of course, is that an actual coup? how can he gain control back? there is a lot of layers of history, as you say, and
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this is of course now exacerbated by the pandemic, which is not in many places as bad as south africa. michael, some cynics or sceptics will say revolutions consume themselves.— will say revolutions consume themselves. . , , ., , will say revolutions consume themselves. . , , ., themselves. yeah, they usually do. ma be not themselves. yeah, they usually do. maybe rrot in _ themselves. yeah, they usually do. maybe not in america. _ themselves. yeah, they usually do. maybe not in america. laughter l maybe not in america. laughter not et! maybe not in america. laughter not yet! look. — maybe not in america. laughter not yet! look, what _ maybe not in america. laughter not yet! look, what was - maybe not in america. laughter l not yet! look, what was interesting about the situation _ not yet! look, what was interesting about the situation in _ not yet! look, what was interesting about the situation in cuba - not yet! look, what was interesting about the situation in cuba and i not yet! look, what was interesting about the situation in cuba and in i about the situation in cuba and in south _ about the situation in cuba and in south africa, the simultaneity is something, co. venice park. to see further— something, co. venice park. to see further interest in cuban hospitals, is training — further interest in cuban hospitals, is training a — further interest in cuban hospitals, is training a generation of doctors who go— is training a generation of doctors who go all— is training a generation of doctors who go all over the world. they have excellent _ who go all over the world. they have excellent health care and to see this condition of the hospitals and
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to see _ this condition of the hospitals and to see covid patients on awful, filthy— to see covid patients on awful, filthy trolleys in havana hospitals, you begin — filthy trolleys in havana hospitals, you begin to understand why this broke _ you begin to understand why this broke out — you begin to understand why this broke out. but this is kind of a bigger— broke out. but this is kind of a bigger theme. broke out. but this is kind of a biggertheme. it's notjust broke out. but this is kind of a bigger theme. it's notjust cuba. broke out. but this is kind of a biggertheme. it's notjust cuba. in cuba, _ biggertheme. it's notjust cuba. in cuba. it's— biggertheme. it's notjust cuba. in cuba. it's a — biggertheme. it's notjust cuba. in cuba, it's a political football. biggertheme. it's notjust cuba. in cuba, it's a politicalfootball. in america. — cuba, it's a politicalfootball. in america, you have the cubans on the right. _ america, you have the cubans on the right. the _ america, you have the cubans on the right, the american left to want to support— right, the american left to want to support the revolution, which is totally— support the revolution, which is totally corrupt. there's nothing to support _ totally corrupt. there's nothing to support there. what's interesting to me is— support there. what's interesting to me is if— support there. what's interesting to me is if you — support there. what's interesting to me is if you think back to when south — me is if you think back to when south africa... in the early 905, when _ south africa... in the early 905, when you — south africa... in the early 905, when you think of iraq today, there is a generation of people who are 30 years— is a generation of people who are 30 years old. _ is a generation of people who are 30 years old, and they probably have southern — years old, and they probably have southern families of their own. they have no— southern families of their own. they have no nothing of post—dictatorship, pre—democratic,
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grotesquely corrupt societies. we don't _ grote5quely corrupt societies. we don't talk— grotesquely corrupt societies. we don't talk about enough iraq overtime. we know what kind of oppression i5 overtime. we know what kind of oppression is needed to keep the lid oppre55ion is needed to keep the lid on. oppre55ion is needed to keep the lid on we _ oppre55ion is needed to keep the lid on we see — oppre55ion is needed to keep the lid on. we see what's happening in south africa _ on. we see what's happening in south africa and _ on. we see what's happening in south africa and cuba, but i think that it is the _ africa and cuba, but i think that it is the long — africa and cuba, but i think that it is the long noted demographic of so many— is the long noted demographic of so many people, young people, who want more, _ many people, young people, who want more. who. _ many people, young people, who want more, who, through the internet, through— more, who, through the internet, through intervention from the united states— through intervention from the united states and _ through intervention from the united states and the g7 power5, they've opened _ states and the g7 power5, they've opened up — states and the g7 power5, they've opened up to the idea of democracy but their— opened up to the idea of democracy but their daily lives are ground down — but their daily lives are ground down by— but their daily lives are ground down by horrendous corruption. covid ha5 down by horrendous corruption. covid has given— down by horrendous corruption. covid has given them a spark to come into the streets — has given them a spark to come into the streets and say, no, we will not live like _ the streets and say, no, we will not live like this — the streets and say, no, we will not live like this any more. but it is sweeping — live like this any more. but it is sweeping the5e live like this any more. but it is sweeping these parts of the world where _ sweeping these parts of the world where we — sweeping these parts of the world where we have had a great deal of
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influence — where we have had a great deal of influence since i'd say the early 19 90s _ influence since i'd say the early 19 90s. ., ., ., ,., , , 90s. yet another reason why this whole question _ 90s. yet another reason why this whole question of— 90s. yet another reason why this whole question of global - 90s. yet another reason why this i whole question of global vaccination matters. stephanie, used to go to cuba regularly. what was your impression of the country than? it was a completely oppressive regime. i used to travel to cuba and help dissidents. it felt like many people have been to cuba, it's a beautiful place and this is one of the problems why the protests have started. the tourism is one of the main incomes for cubans. but it was shocking to meet people who have been standing up and cuba for the most basic rights, just to express their political opinion and have fair elections. how they were treated and how they were disappeared and killed, that was
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something that will always stay with me, especially coming from germany. james, finally, on the relationship between united states and cuba. it is a fascinating one, not least in its peculiarity. joe biden is chuck with the trump sanctions —— stuck with the trump sanctions —— stuck with the trump sanctions —— stuck with the trump sanctions. is it a diplomatic mistake, do you think, to keep a country like cuba under that embargo? keep a country like cuba under that embaruo? . , .,, ., embargo? there are people who say es, mr embargo? there are people who say yes. mr itiden _ embargo? there are people who say yes, mr biden should _ embargo? there are people who say yes, mr biden should re-adopt i embargo? there are people who say yes, mr biden should re-adopt what| yes, mr biden should re—adopt what mr 0bama _ yes, mr biden should re—adopt what mr 0bama did. _ yes, mr biden should re—adopt what mr 0bama did, particularly- yes, mr biden should re—adopt what mr 0bama did, particularly openingl mr 0bama did, particularly opening up mr 0bama did, particularly opening upand— mr 0bama did, particularly opening up and relaxing _ mr 0bama did, particularly opening up and relaxing sanctions. - mr 0bama did, particularly opening up and relaxing sanctions. allowing remittances— up and relaxing sanctions. allowing remittances to _ up and relaxing sanctions. allowing remittances to go _ up and relaxing sanctions. allowing remittances to go to _ up and relaxing sanctions. allowing remittances to go to cubans - up and relaxing sanctions. allowing remittances to go to cubans in i remittances to go to cubans in americam _ remittances to go to cubans in americam im— remittances to go to cubans in america... i'm not— remittances to go to cubans in america... i'm not an- remittances to go to cubans in america... i'm not an expert. remittances to go to cubans in| america... i'm not an expert in remittances to go to cubans in- america... i'm not an expert in the politics— america... i'm not an expert in the politics of— america... i'm not an expert in the politics of florida, _ america... i'm not an expert in the politics of florida, but _ america... i'm not an expert in the politics of florida, but i'm - america... i'm not an expert in the politics of florida, but i'm told i politics of florida, but i'm told that is — politics of florida, but i'm told that is a — politics of florida, but i'm told that is a key— politics of florida, but i'm told that is a key part _ politics of florida, but i'm told that is a key part of— politics of florida, but i'm told that is a key part of it. - politics of florida, but i'm told that is a key part of it. the i that is a key part of it. the democratic— that is a key part of it. the democratic party- that is a key part of it. the democratic party are i that is a key part of it. the | democratic party are trying that is a key part of it. the i democratic party are trying to defend —
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democratic party are trying to defend themselves— democratic party are trying to defend themselves in - democratic party are trying to defend themselves in key- democratic party are trying to i defend themselves in key races there~ — defend themselves in key races there they— defend themselves in key races there. they don't _ defend themselves in key races there. they don't want - defend themselves in key races there. they don't want to - defend themselves in key races there. they don't want to pick i defend themselves in key races| there. they don't want to pick a fight _ there. they don't want to pick a fight with— there. they don't want to pick a fight with powerful— there. they don't want to pick a fight with powerful cuban - fight with powerful cuban republicans. _ fight with powerful cuban republicans. there's - fight with powerful cuban republicans. there's a i fight with powerful cuban . republicans. there's a little fight with powerful cuban - republicans. there's a little bit of politics _ republicans. there's a little bit of politics at — republicans. there's a little bit of politics at the _ republicans. there's a little bit of politics at the moment. _ republicans. there's a little bit of politics at the moment. joe - republicans. there's a little bit of politics at the moment. joe bideni republicans. there's a little bit of . politics at the moment. joe biden is being _ politics at the moment. joe biden is being very— politics at the moment. joe biden is being very specific, _ politics at the moment. joe biden is being very specific, yesterday - being very specific, yesterday himself— being very specific, yesterday himself he _ being very specific, yesterday himself he said _ being very specific, yesterday himself he said he _ being very specific, yesterday himself he said he referred i being very specific, yesterdayi himself he said he referred to being very specific, yesterday - himself he said he referred to cuba as a failed — himself he said he referred to cuba as a failed state _ himself he said he referred to cuba as a failed state and _ himself he said he referred to cuba as a failed state and we _ himself he said he referred to cuba as a failed state and we said - himself he said he referred to cuba as a failed state and we said we - himself he said he referred to cuba| as a failed state and we said we are not going _ as a failed state and we said we are not going to — as a failed state and we said we are not going to shift _ as a failed state and we said we are not going to shift on _ as a failed state and we said we are not going to shift on remittances. l not going to shift on remittances. fascinating — not going to shift on remittances. fascinating. it's— not going to shift on remittances. fascinating. it's going _ not going to shift on remittances. fascinating. it's going to - not going to shift on remittances. fascinating. it's going to be - not going to shift on remittances. fascinating. it's going to be one i not going to shift on remittances. l fascinating. it's going to be one to wash. let me finally ask each of you about some other things. michael first. ~ �* , ., first. well, there's something going on in america- _ first. well, there's something going on in america. there _ first. well, there's something going on in america. there always - first. well, there's something going on in america. there always is. - first. well, there's something goingi on in america. there always is. this is local_ on in america. there always is. this is local politics. a lot of us here in britain — is local politics. a lot of us here in britain the world thinkjoe biden is president and donald trump is making _ is president and donald trump is making noise down in mara longo, but he's gone _ making noise down in mara longo, but he's gone. the republican party and the crisis _ he's gone. the republican party and the crisis in — he's gone. the republican party and the crisis in american democracy is not done —
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the crisis in american democracy is not done. earlier this week, the democrats _ not done. earlier this week, the democrats in the state legislator fled democrats in the state legislator tied so _ democrats in the state legislator fled so they would not be a coral. no business would be transacted —— a quarret _ no business would be transacted —— a quarret to— no business would be transacted —— a quarrel. to sharply curtail the ability— quarrel. to sharply curtail the ability to— quarrel. to sharply curtail the ability to people to vote. particularly african—americans and people _ particularly african—americans and peorrte for— particularly african—americans and people for poorer communities. a lot of people _ people for poorer communities. a lot of people had jobs where they can't take the _ of people had jobs where they can't take the day off, so there were all kinds _ take the day off, so there were all kinds of— take the day off, so there were all kinds of ways now you can vote. the texas _ kinds of ways now you can vote. the texas legislature is trying to cut them _ texas legislature is trying to cut them all— texas legislature is trying to cut them all back. it is voter suppression. if democrats are in the minority. _ suppression. if democrats are in the minority, they couldn't hope to stop this hilt, _ minority, they couldn't hope to stop this hilt, so— minority, they couldn't hope to stop this bill, so they simply removed himself— this bill, so they simply removed himself so— this bill, so they simply removed himself so there wouldn't be a quarrel— himself so there wouldn't be a quarrel and no business could be conducted —
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quarrel and no business could be conducted. that is where politics is out in _ conducted. that is where politics is out in america. joe biden is trying to pass _ out in america. joe biden is trying to pass a — out in america. joe biden is trying to pass a $3 — out in america. joe biden is trying to pass a $3 trillion infrastructure bill and _ to pass a $3 trillion infrastructure bill and bailout bill, all of these things — bill and bailout bill, all of these things. people should be paying attention to what's happening in the state houses, particularly the ones controtted — state houses, particularly the ones controlled by the republican party, which _ controlled by the republican party, which seems to be really making a strong _ which seems to be really making a strong effort to turn america into one-party— strong effort to turn america into one—party state, even though they are not— one—party state, even though they are not in— one—party state, even though they are not in the majority nationally. stephanie, — are not in the majority nationally. stephanie, speaking of elections, you mentioned the terrible flooding. of course, and while that's very much in the news for the time being, this is also very political. because it is now a challenge for the likely successor of angela merkel, who was also prime minister of the land with the most damages, and he's competing very much with the green party. the green party now has a kind of
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advantage because they say the flooding is a consequence of climate change. the conservative party has always been, the answer of climate change, but we have to think of the economies. it's interesting to see from the conservatives showing up and how they are bringing over there message. this might be a decisive who wins the election. afghanistan, the media worldwide _ who wins the election. afghanistan, the media worldwide is _ who wins the election. afghanistan, the media worldwide is graded - who wins the election. afghanistan, | the media worldwide is graded doing stories— the media worldwide is graded doing stories when — the media worldwide is graded doing stories when flags _ the media worldwide is graded doing stories when flags have _ the media worldwide is graded doing stories when flags have been - the media worldwide is graded doing stories when flags have been fold i stories when flags have been fold down _ stories when flags have been fold down but — stories when flags have been fold down but we _ stories when flags have been fold down. but we are _ stories when flags have been fold down. but we are always - stories when flags have been fold down. but we are always very - stories when flags have been fold | down. but we are always very bad stories when flags have been fold i down. but we are always very bad at forgetting _ down. but we are always very bad at forgetting them~ _ down. but we are always very bad at forgetting them. syria, _ down. but we are always very bad at forgetting them. syria, we've - down. but we are always very bad at forgetting them. syria, we've done i forgetting them. syria, we've done it. forgetting them. syria, we've done it afghanistan, _ forgetting them. syria, we've done it. afghanistan, the _ forgetting them. syria, we've done it. afghanistan, the spread - forgetting them. syria, we've done it. afghanistan, the spread of- forgetting them. syria, we've done it. afghanistan, the spread of the i it. afghanistan, the spread of the tatiban— it. afghanistan, the spread of the taliban across _ it. afghanistan, the spread of the taliban across afghanistan, - it. afghanistan, the spread of the taliban across afghanistan, the l taliban across afghanistan, the capturing — taliban across afghanistan, the capturing of— taliban across afghanistan, the capturing of border— taliban across afghanistan, the capturing of border posts, - taliban across afghanistan, the capturing of border posts, the i capturing of border posts, the tresieging _ capturing of border posts, the tresieging of— capturing of border posts, the besieging of capitals. - capturing of border posts, the besieging of capitals. we - capturing of border posts, the besieging of capitals. we are i capturing of border posts, the - besieging of capitals. we are seeing in some _ besieging of capitals. we are seeing in some of— besieging of capitals. we are seeing in some of these _ besieging of capitals. we are seeing in some of these areas _ besieging of capitals. we are seeing in some of these areas all— besieging of capitals. we are seeing in some of these areas all the - besieging of capitals. we are seeing in some of these areas all the stuffl in some of these areas all the stuff we saw— in some of these areas all the stuff we saw before _ in some of these areas all the stuff we saw before. women _ in some of these areas all the stuff we saw before. women being -
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in some of these areas all the stuff. we saw before. women being forced in some of these areas all the stuff- we saw before. women being forced to shelter— we saw before. women being forced to shelter in _ we saw before. women being forced to shelter in homes, _ we saw before. women being forced to shelter in homes, girls— we saw before. women being forced to shelter in homes, girls no— we saw before. women being forced to shelter in homes, girls no longer- shelter in homes, girls no longer treing _ shelter in homes, girls no longer treing abte — shelter in homes, girls no longer treing able to _ shelter in homes, girls no longer treing able to go _ shelter in homes, girls no longer being able to go to— shelter in homes, girls no longer being able to go to school, - shelter in homes, girls no longer being able to go to school, meni being able to go to school, men forced _ being able to go to school, men forced to— being able to go to school, men forced to spend _ being able to go to school, men forced to spend most _ being able to go to school, men forced to spend most of - being able to go to school, men forced to spend most of the - being able to go to school, men forced to spend most of the day praying — forced to spend most of the day praying all_ forced to spend most of the day praying all of— forced to spend most of the day praying. all of that _ forced to spend most of the day praying. all of that is _ forced to spend most of the dayj praying. all of that is happening again. _ praying. all of that is happening again. and — praying. all of that is happening again, and there _ praying. all of that is happening again, and there are _ praying. all of that is happening again, and there are talks - praying. all of that is happening| again, and there are talks taking place _ again, and there are talks taking place and — again, and there are talks taking ptace and the _ again, and there are talks taking place and the afghan _ again, and there are talks taking place and the afghan president i again, and there are talks taking i place and the afghan president was it was— place and the afghan president was it was becca — place and the afghan president was it was becca today. _ place and the afghan president was it was becca today. but _ place and the afghan president was it was becca today. but the - place and the afghan president was it was becca today. but the military is happening — it was becca today. but the military is happening. there _ it was becca today. but the military is happening. there is _ it was becca today. but the military is happening. there is a _ it was becca today. but the military is happening. there is a real- it was becca today. but the military| is happening. there is a real human cost of— is happening. there is a real human cost of the — is happening. there is a real human cost of the-— is happening. there is a real human cost of the._ the i cost of the. briefly, michael. the concern is _ cost of the. briefly, michael. the concern is there _ cost of the. briefly, michael. the concern is there are _ cost of the. briefly, michael. the concern is there are several - concern is there are several thousand _ concern is there are several thousand people who have been working — thousand people who have been working. they cannot be left behind and there's— working. they cannot be left behind and there's a real worry.— and there's a real worry. michael and there's a real worry. michael and stephanie — and there's a real worry. michael and stephanie and _ and there's a real worry. michael and stephanie and james, - and there's a real worry. michael and stephanie and james, are i and there's a real worry. michaell and stephanie and james, are you and there's a real worry. michael - and stephanie and james, are you all and stephanie and james, are you all very much. thank you very much for your company. we will be back sometime next week.
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hello. wales, northern ireland and scotland recorded their highest temperatures of the year so far today, the hot spots in the upper 20s. a few places in england, perhaps wales, will reach the 30 celsius mark for the first time this season this weekend. not everywhere is going to have a very warm to hot weekend because there's a weak weather front close to northern scotland keeping things cooler here with cloud, wind and the chance of seeing a little light rain. that's the case overnight as cloud becomes more extensive across western scotland into northern ireland, a few patches in eastern england, temperatures in the mid to low teens. big picture for the weekend, the area of low pressure which has brought that horrific flooding, particularly to germany, moving southeastwards still with heavy downpours. but behind it, the high pressure giving us a mainly dry weekend will extend to areas that have been
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exceptionally wet and turn things drier. we are mainly dry, not everywhere. that weak weather front close to northern scotland on saturday with cloud, breeze and the chance of a little rain. southern and eastern scotland, very warm sunny spells, brightening up in northern ireland after a cloudy start, though some patches of low cloud lingering around some irish sea coasts. any early cloud in eastern england clearing away and temperatures nearing that 30 celsius mark in yorkshire, for example, during saturday afternoon. hot weekend for the grand prix at silverstone, very high track temperatures as well. if you're following the open golf in kent, that stiff northerly breeze will ease a touch. a few words of caution about what's coming this weekend. uv levels widely high to very high, burn quickly without protection, and no let—up for hay fever sufferers — high to very high pollen levels away from those cloudy parts of northern scotland. in fact, in scotland, cloud becomes more extensive as we go through saturday night and into sunday morning. so, there will be more cloud around
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here, some heavier bursts of rain possible in northern scotland for a time. cloudier in northern ireland, a bit more cloud in northern england, perhaps north wales. there will be some sunny spells here, too, but temperatures will be a touchdown on sunday compared with saturday here. the highest temperatures here on sunday will be across central and southern parts of england, south wales. again, a few spots are likely to reach that 30 celsius mark. those highest temperatures will begin to ease a little next week. it stays very warm, mind you, largely dry until later in the week, increasing chance of rain.
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manager this is bbc news i'm celia hatton. the headlines: the worst floods in europe for decades kill more than a 120 people emergency services in western germany, belgium and the netherlands search for hundreds of people still missing, and try to rescue those stranded by the floodwaters. with three days to go until most covid restrictions are lifted in england the uk records more than 50,000 new cases in a single day the highest since january. self africa's president has just addressed the nation after days of rioting and looting and he said efforts to overthrow a democracy has failed. , , ., . failed. using the pretext of a olitical failed. using the pretext of a political grievance, _ failed. using the pretext of a political grievance, those - failed. using the pretext of a - political grievance, those behind these acts have sought to

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