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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  January 28, 2021 12:30am-1:01am GMT

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to tackle climate change which he's described as an existential threat. mr biden designated it a national security priority and said the us must lead the global response. among new measures announced is a moratorium on new oil and gas leases on public land. the row between the pharmaceutical company astrazeneca and the european union over a shortage of coronavirus vaccines has escalated. the eu's health commissioner has insisted that astrazeneca come up with a clear plan to deliver on their contractual obligations to supply vaccines. the ioc has dismissed suggestions that the delayed tokyo 2020 games could be cancelled. olympic officials said it was not about whether the competition happened, more a question of how. the games are set to take place this summer — just two months afterjapan�*s vaccination programme begins. now, it's time for hardtalk.
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welcome to hardtalk. i am stephen sackur. russian opposition leader is the most resilient opponent vladimir putin has ever spaced. he survived the attempted assassination by now the shock, returned to russia and is now frustrating anti—vladimir pruden protest from his prison cell. and the head of staff, the opposition movement has supporters willing to take to the streets and hundreds of russian towns and cities and do they have a strategy capable of forcing vladimir putin from power?
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in that the way media, alexei navalny. welcome to hardtalk. he must establish what kind of contact you have with alexei navalny right now, you have any means of contacting him? the onl wa means of contacting him? the only way of — means of contacting him? tue: only way of contacting means of contacting him? tte: only way of contacting him is through his lawyers, not even, his only has lawyers are allowed to visit him and they do not enter a privacy and so it is supervised contact but still, a place to pass basic information on what is going on. but they're not
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orchestrating progress from this a little bit too much. actually, he is not able to do it, but his political structures. they are now managing this and it is capable of at least for some time of keeping them moving forward along with the directions. he left berlin for moscow. what kind of left berlin for moscow. what kind 0’ ., ~ left berlin for moscow. what kind 0’ . ~ ., left berlin for moscow. what kind�* . ~ ., ., kind of what kind of condition is the end- — kind of what kind of condition is the end. recovering - kind of what kind of condition is the end. recovering from i kind of what kind of condition| is the end. recovering from a near—death experience with the nerve agent and he did recover. clearly, he is not physically he was. how is he now? he recovered _ he was. how is he now? he: recovered physically quite well. important condition for his decision to go back to russia because she realised he would face serious risks a while back in russia and he wanted to be ready and wanted
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to be completely fit and so his physical condition is fine and he is in solitary confinement in a prison called. it is quite an infamous one. it is a prison where the lawyer was tortured and died back in 2009. fire where the lawyer was tortured and died back in 2009. are you iml in: and died back in 2009. are you implying to _ and died back in 2009. are you implying to me _ and died back in 2009. are you implying to me that _ and died back in 2009. are you implying to me that he - and died back in 2009. are you implying to me that he is - implying to me that he is undergoing any sort of physical or mental abuse or torture right now?— or mental abuse or torture riaht now? ., , , ., right now? no. definitely no. but it is definitely _ right now? no. definitely no. but it is definitely also - right now? no. definitely no. but it is definitely also not i but it is definitely also not the best place in the room for them to be in that the safest world. it is a prison run by the russian secret service. so, he is in custody of people who tried to kill him five months ago. tried to kill him five months auo. , tried to kill him five months aao_ , ., ., tried to kill him five months auo. , ., ., ago. this notion if you was in charue ago. this notion if you was in charge right _ ago. this notion if you was in charge right now. _ ago. this notion if you was in charge right now. as - ago. this notion if you was in charge right now. as i - charge right now. as i understand it, and mass of january 23 effort to get people out on the streets which saw protests in a hundred or so russian towns and cities, there is now a plan to undertake
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another set of demonstrations on january another set of demonstrations onjanuary 3i. another set of demonstrations on january 31. you another set of demonstrations onjanuary 31. you are telling me that alexei navalny is in no place to actually orchestrate and manage the protest movement and manage the protest movement and so, who was making this decision? is a new?- decision? is a new? yes, i managed _ decision? is a new? yes, i managed the _ decision? is a new? yes, i managed the original- decision? is a new? yes, i. managed the original network for alexei navalny original office across the country. yes, i am in charge of the organisation of this. on january 23, we have hundred 77 participants, all russian citizens sounds with population 50,000 plus, maybe it some smaller ones. now, the hope is that we will be able to get even more citizens on the streets. even more citizens on the streets-— even more citizens on the streets. ., , , streets. you must be mindful that more _ streets. you must be mindful that more than _ streets. you must be mindful that more than 3000 - streets. you must be mindful that more than 3000 people | streets. you must be mindful- that more than 3000 people were arrested and there were some violence as well. as a
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responsible to ask people to go back on the streets at a time of covid—i9 when it is advised that people stay well apart from each other. you want them to gather together and you want them to face what could be more heavy—handed police action. how responsible is that? heavy-handed police action. how responsible is that?— responsible is that? almost 4000 peeple _ responsible is that? almost 4000 people were - responsible is that? almost| 4000 people were detained responsible is that? almost. 4000 people were detained on january 23 but most of them were released. those who stay under arrest, were released. those who stay underarrest, like were released. those who stay under arrest, like several dozens of people who stay under arrest until now are our local regional coordinators. out of my employees, the heads of the officers of the country, 75% of them are under arrest now in localjails. so, we take the most powerful, below from the government for the organisations and so local activists and regular
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participants of these protest rallies are not under severe risks but the organisers of the employees are.— employees are. you are in a political _ employees are. you are in a political exile _ employees are. you are in a political exile at _ employees are. you are in a political exile at the - employees are. you are in a | political exile at the moment but your colleagues in your anti—corruption movement, and you have also got, they really run the risk of being picked up and detained at any moment. that is true and morally it is complicated. i had to move out from russia because when i was in russia, i was in detention constantly for us to buy was arrested nine times and spent overfour arrested nine times and spent over four months arrested nine times and spent overfour months in arrested nine times and spent over four months in detention and i was facing a prolonged prison terms of several years. it was decisions that we have to make and someone has to stay
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out of the country and out of prison to manage our movement and i would say that, of course, i would and i would say that, of course, iwould prefer to and i would say that, of course, i would prefer to be in moscow first on the streets with supporters and then detention centre where you basically read books and sleeps a lot and don't have to care about very many things and don't have to take a lot of responsibility. now, indeed there's a lot of responsibility because we have to organise this while almost all of our staff is under arrest and that is really quite a challenge and we are talking and working really hard because only 25% of our staff right of now. so, everyone has to work twice the amount. , , ., amount. these repeated demonstrations - amount. these repeated demonstrations which i amount. these repeated l demonstrations which are amount. these repeated - demonstrations which are likely to lead to more are you in
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danger of overplaying your hand? i am danger of overplaying your hand? iam mindfulthat danger of overplaying your hand? i am mindful that the putin government has demonstrated and it is been violent in putting children in front of the demonstrations according to the government in according to the government in a trust comparison with terrorists and environment prudence is said be very careful of those who serve the seeds of chaos and instability. we know that it is the ordinary people who suffer. that is a message that russian people may listen to. . t message that russian people may listen to. . ., �* ~ ., listen to. . i don't know if russian _ listen to. . i don't know if russian people _ listen to. . i don't know if russian people really - listen to. . i don't know if| russian people really want listen to. . i don't know if - russian people really want to listen to his messages anymore. they know his messages are lies and they are full of poison and thievery. and they know that in the south of russia, a force of £1 billion. they are worried
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about the alexei navalny poisonings a while back and therefore the instigation which was conducted by the court, vladimir prudence orders. and this propaganda is based on lies and it is not in a more efficient as it used to be just several years ago. and those who put children in front are terrorists while there is no record of children participating in our protests. just today, i recorded a video asking and urging parents not to take, but it is vladimir putin's actions from 2014, and crimea when he said on record that if the ukrainian military would like to go to the russian
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military, we will let the women and children in front of our soldiers so that they will have to shoot at them. so, he pretty much described himself as a terrorist and.— terrorist and. you made a series of— terrorist and. you made a series of charges - terrorist and. you made a series of charges there i terrorist and. you made a - series of charges there against leonard pruden and his government. and we could reject out of hand. with your strategy, you're incredibly confrontational strategy, as you've just raised it of the release of this vast palace on the black sea, but is entirely for the use of vladimir pruden and you point to the claims that you say a pole dancing arena. there is a casino, there arena. there is a casino, there are toilet brushes from italy with $800. it sounds like you're trying to ridicule and
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humiliate vladimir putin. is that your strategy now? that is true and he _ that your strategy now? that is true and he deserves _ that your strategy now? that is true and he deserves to - that your strategy now? that is true and he deserves to be - true and he deserves to be ridiculed in humiliated because vladimir putin's propaganda has worked hard to build an image of a strategy of geopolitical strategies of a great leader while you look at this news where he had a very unsuccessful year with the secret service. he did much worse than his colleagues, he was not a brilliant spy or something like this and now, we are able to have a look inside his palace. it is also a look inside his head, his mind we saw that it is just a very small man, that of a leprechaun who just wants to have as much gold as possible and that's it. the more you personalise this, you make it all about vladimir putin and it's alexei navalny versus vladimir putin. the
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danger surely is that you entrench vladimir putin and you don't actually build an organisation capable of strategic long—term opposition from the grassroots up. what you are doing is building up alexei navalny as this theatrical hero to take on the evil vladimir putin, but that is not necessarily going to make your organisation capable of all of the heart determine strategic work to build an effective opposition. first of all, ou effective opposition. first of all, you probably _ effective opposition. first of all, you probably do - effective opposition. first of all, you probably do not - effective opposition. first of| all, you probably do not have to use a westerner approach to western politics —— russian politics. it is not proper to build a proper grassroots political organisation in russia. you just get repressed ljy russia. you just get repressed by the government and as we are talking, right now, all of our offices once again are being searched by the police and all equipment seized, everyone of
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those who it was still enjoying relative freedom are being put to jail in view of the upcoming protest of them trying to destroy the remnants of the organisation.— destroy the remnants of the oruanisation. �* �* organisation. and you're saying all we've got — organisation. and you're saying all we've got is _ organisation. and you're saying all we've got is the _ organisation. and you're saying all we've got is the ability - organisation. and you're saying all we've got is the ability to i all we've got is the ability to create sensational headlines and to personalise this, what is the long—term strategy. anti—vladimir putin commentator in the united kingdom, i'm sure you know his work, ed lucas, says out loud that the opposition is in danger of building a scenario a bit like belarus where you can get someone out on the streets but you are not able to deliver the organisation and the activism across the country to really begin to undermine vladimir putin's grip on power. but that is wron: putin's grip on power. but that is wrong because _ putin's grip on power. but that is wrong because what - putin's grip on power. but that is wrong because what we i is wrong because what we already have in place is a
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political organisation. we cannot get people out on the streets and 177 cities. they have alexei navalny offices, which is a grassroots organisation up and running in 40 cities. we have several hundred thousands of volunteers who participate in activism and local products in those regions. so, we are an organisation as you just described and proved that this organisation is efficient, it was able to organise and provide —30 and against enormous terrorist propaganda campaigns that campaign for days using channels of television and thousands of channels of propaganda and everyone who decides to say this will be harassed and beaten by police and so on and so on. despite
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300,000 coming out. the comparison _ 300,000 coming out. the comparison with _ 300,000 coming out. the comparison with belarus is surely that the police that the security services, the entire security services, the entire security structure in belarus right now appears to be staying loyal to the president and as far as we can tell, and russia, the security apparatus is absolutely loyal to president vladimir putin. is it true that on the next demonstration, your encouraging people in moscow to demonstrate outside of the headquarters of the intelligence services? yes, indeed. our _ intelligence services? yes, indeed. our assembly i intelligence services? yes, indeed. our assembly on l intelligence services? yes, l indeed. our assembly on the first is sfb headquarters because they are people responsible for killings, tortures, poisoning alexei navalny and i think it's the best place to protest. t5 navalny and i think it's the best place to protest. is that siml best place to protest. is that simply point _ best place to protest. is that simply point to _ best place to protest. is that simply point to ensure i best place to protest. is that simply point to ensure that l best place to protest. is that. simply point to ensure that all of those operatives inside the fsb in the security apparatus view you as the enemy? thea;r
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view you as the enemy? they already do — view you as the enemy? they already do and _ view you as the enemy? they already do and that _ view you as the enemy? they already do and that is - view you as the enemy? they already do and that is within l already do and that is within strategy. he'll contact the security forces again against the peaceful protesters, civil society and that is what we have, that is the reality that we face and you are right, it is very severe and dangerous. threats of thousand people turned out for this protest on january 23 but 30 million watched broadcasts life, 30 million people followed. a hundred times more. it shows, the 30 million that actually, the 30 million that actually, the 99 out of a hundred or scared. and that is because the police violence and this organisation. tt police violence and this organisation.— police violence and this organisation. if you believe that the security _ organisation. if you believe that the security apparatus | that the security apparatus regards you as the enemy and you have no hope of building
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bridges or winning some of them over, than it seems to me that the more you bring people out into the streets as you plan to do if the next few weeks and months, the more likely it is that you're going to plunge russia into long—term civil conflict. is that what you want? , ., ._ conflict. is that what you want? , ., , . want? there is no way is civil conflict, _ want? there is no way is civil conflict, civil— want? there is no way is civil conflict, civil war _ want? there is no way is civil conflict, civil war will - conflict, civil war will happen. but there is a civil war in terms of propaganda. there is a very strong contact in this organisation. his propaganda machine and normal people, he is trying to scare people, he is trying to scare people of him and prohibit everything. but in terms of conflict using weapons, it is not possible it's not going to happen just because our demonstrations are always peaceful and peoplejust demonstrations are always peaceful and people just do demonstrations are always peaceful and peoplejust do not have weapons on their hands and russia. but we want to achieve
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is to get back at least some of the political freedoms we have lost over the last two years. we want to get back at least the right to participate in elections. we have an election scheduled injust elections. we have an election scheduled in just eight months and we want to be participating and we want to be participating and , ., and we want to be participating and we want to be participating and , ., , and we want to be participating and your political strategy is the aim of— and your political strategy is the aim of those _ and your political strategy is i the aim of those parliamentary elections in september, but you know that the russian government has ways of banning political parties it doesn't like and that is probably going to have it to the party that you and alexei navalny created. what is your strategy? are going to try to find independent candidates to vote for the best anti—vladimir putin option? for the best anti-vladimir putin option?— for the best anti-vladimir putin option? exactly. that is what doing- _ putin option? exactly. that is what doing. required - putin option? exactly. that is what doing. required identify those candidates _ what doing. required identify those candidates that - what doing. required identify those candidates that have i what doing. required identify l those candidates that have the best chance to prevail and
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those candidates that have the best chance to prevail- best chance to prevail and in the districts. _ best chance to prevail and in the districts. even _ best chance to prevail and in the districts. even if - best chance to prevail and in the districts. even if our i the districts. even if our candidates are not again admitted to the ballot and this will help us to create as much political turbulence as possible just for the parliament lease to become not, diverse. and —— if not become completely diverse. diverse. and -- if not become completely diverse.— completely diverse. you have complained — completely diverse. you have complained to _ completely diverse. you have complained to me _ completely diverse. you have complained to me that i completely diverse. you have complained to me that the i completely diverse. you have i complained to me that the state control of most of these media. particularly television broadcast media in russian makes a very difficult for the opposition. i am makes a very difficult for the opposition. iam mindful that you are a bit of a computer guru, do you believe that the russian state is going to continue to allow you to use social media platforms, particularly like youtube, tick—tock and other platforms to get your message across to the young russian people? so
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far, you are achieving that but we all know that russia's pretty sophisticated in its ability to control the internet and even social media platforms and even social media platforms and so, perhaps you're going to find you are running out of road, even online? we find you are running out of road, even online?- find you are running out of road, even online? we do not need their— road, even online? we do not need their approval. - road, even online? we do not need their approval. we i road, even online? we do not need their approval. we are l need their approval. we are quite sophisticated and technical things. we know we can overcome most threats as being able to use against us. and we know how to educate people to use vpn and tools to overcome the blacklists. at least, we can compete with them and as of now, we are competing quite successfully. the website for them where the issue of our advisers will support the district is actually technically blocked by the russian government. and it
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cannot be accessed from russia. still, it is up and running and accessible.— still, it is up and running and accessible. ., , , ., accessible. some of the russian media is describing _ accessible. some of the russian media is describing alexei i media is describing alexei navalny as a puppet of the rest ofjoe biden on the white house and saying that he's going to bring about a very different policy towards vladimir putin and he raised the issue of alexei navalny in the poisoning in his first phone conversation with vladimir putin, who kong on thejoe biden administration and the west to be much tougher with the sanctions? b and the west to be much tougher with the sanctions?— with the sanctions? b much tougher- — with the sanctions? b much tougher. vladimir _ with the sanctions? b much tougher. vladimir putin i tougher. vladimir putin possible is money if they're able to corrupt and drop political institutions in the west. corrupting political west. corru pting political institutions west. corrupting political institutions and you can see how many european politicians are overly dependent on his money and it is time to do
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something against this as we have said many times, it is time to hunt and freeze those assets. those that belong to russian oligarchs and actually, belong to vladimir putin and mainly, most of his friends and they are just parts of his wallet. they are 'ust parts of his wallet. ., ., ., wallet. you said to me part of our wallet. you said to me part of your strategy _ wallet. you said to me part of your strategy right _ wallet. you said to me part of your strategy right now i wallet. you said to me part of your strategy right now is i wallet. you said to me part of your strategy right now is to l your strategy right now is to personalise this is a struggle between alexei navalny and vladimir putin but the truth is that he faces a new court hearing after which he may well be charged with new crimes. crimes that could keep him in prison for many years to come. isn't that really the problem but you've got that he may well be behind bars for a very long time and without him, your movement has a fundamental problem of leadership? £311"
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problem of leadership? our movement _ problem of leadership? our movement has _ problem of leadership? qt" movement has proven that it problem of leadership? t>t" movement has proven that it is able to operate and with him as able to operate and with him as a symbol. when he was under house arrest in 2014 for a year, cut off from communications, when he was in berlin for a month, when he was detained for several months, we were all able to operate know what to do and in the case where alexei navalny is in prison, he becomes a symbol, a anthem and a point of conservation, do not give up to the regime for any reason and you're right, all the efforts are concentrated to work on the upcoming court hearings and thatis upcoming court hearings and that is why we are staging those protests right now because it is important for us
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and if this court loses, we all know that for this division, it will be entirely political and depends on how much pressure we will be able to put on vladimir putin and his courts on the russian streets. t putin and his courts on the russian streets.— putin and his courts on the russian streets. i think you very much _ russian streets. i think you very much for _ russian streets. i think you very much forjoining i russian streets. i think you very much forjoining me i russian streets. i think you| very much forjoining me on hard talk. very much for “oining me on hard talk.— hello there. a bit of a weather tussle going on over the skies of the uk over the next few days. between cold air to the north and east of us and milder air to the south and west. during the next 20 far hours it's the mild ear that will win through for many. but on this dividing line we could see quite an active weather system. and that's going to produce
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on one side, pretty heavy rainfall, northern ireland, northern west england of greatest concern. where we could seat nearly two inches of rain in one or two spots. adding to the flood risk that still ongoing. on the colder side of a weather system, the hills of nova in england, southern scotland and into central northern scotland we could see significant snow. which could have an impact for some of the higher roots. and it's here where we start the day of course coldest of all, maybe temperatures low as minus six degrees. compared to ten or 11 in parts of cornwall. big north, south contrast was not there is the dividing line. that area of rain, sleet and snow through the morning rush hour pushing its way slowly northwards. drying up and brightening up to the south without quite misty and murky underneath that weather front. but you can see it's on these higher sites were more likely to see the snow. that rain, sleet, snow mix is going to hang around across parts of central scotland moving into northern scotland as we go through the day. that will allow skies to brighten for england and wales. mostly misty and murky in the north. but with some sunnier skies and still a bit of a breeze is going to be incredibly mild.
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temperatures could get up to 14 degrees compared to just four in aberdeen. for it should stay dry and bright through much of the day. another batch of rain that comes through thursday evening. rain this time rather than snow. it's in the milder air. snow continues to fall in northern parts of scotland. some heavy, thundery showers into the first part of friday morning. across the south. we still got that north, south contrast as far as temperatures are concerned. widespread frost in the far north of scotland where you've got some snow and icy conditions to start friday. that will still be there on friday morning. rain across southern scotland, northern england fizzling out. a few heavy, maybe thundery showers across the south but a chance for some sunshine through on friday. temperatures still" figures in the south by the colder air starting to fight its way back. and it will continue to try and push back as we go into the weekend was up notice how it's pushing its way southward. this swirl is an indication of a weather system which could bring another mix of rain, sleet, snow on saturday cross england and wales ahead of potentially another one late on sunday. that fight goes
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on into next week too.
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this is bbc news, i'm mike embley with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. in my view we've already waited too long to deal with this climate crisis. we can't wait any longer, and we see it with our own eyes. an existential threat — a stark warning from president biden as he has signed a series of executive orders to tackle climate change. european union slams astrazeneca but fails to get the company to make—up the shortfall in vaccine production. how did the pandemic start? world health organization experts finally end their quarantine in wuhan, and prepare to investigate covid's origins. and the dictator who delivered democracy — ghana says goodbye to jerry rawlings, its leader
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for 20 controversial years.

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