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tv   Victoria Derbyshire  BBC News  July 31, 2019 10:00am-11:00am BST

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hello, it's wednesday, it's ten o'clock. i'm victoria fritz. only 3% of rape cases in london lead to a conviction, according to an in—depth study seen by this programme. this woman was asked to hand over her mobile phone so that her social media could be checked, even though her allegations dated back to the 19705. the police said no further action would be taken. very emotionally draining, it's very exhausting, but the fact that we have, or i have in my particular instance, there is enough evidence but it's not in the public interest to prosecute, really angers me. borisjohnson is in northern ireland for the first time as prime minister
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to talk about brexit, and to help efforts to restore the power—sharing government. we'll be live at stormont. he was falsely accused of being part of a vip paedophile ring. his home was raided by police, and now the former mp harvey proctor wants an independent inquiry into the way police handled false allegations made by carl beech. i am frequently tortured by the realisation that had mr beech been successful in his scheme to pervert the course ofjustice, i would have been imprisoned until my death. we'll be talking to mr proctor about the impact the false accusations had on his life. the top ten warmest years on record in the uk have all occurred since 2002, according to the met office. what can we do to stop climate change? well, prince harry says he and meghan will help by only having two children. he's also said that many people have unconscious bias about skin colour
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and that racism is "passed down through generations". hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11:00am this morning. what do you make of prince harry saying that he and meghan will only have two children to help fight climate change? is it something you'd consider doing yourself, or does it feel like a token gesture? let us know. use the hashtag victoria live. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you, and maybe want to take part in the programme, please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. this is the scene at stormont in northern ireland where borisjohnson has been meeting party leaders. there's been no power—sharing executive for two and a half years.
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we're expecting a statement from the leader of sinn fein in the next few minutes. first, rebecca has the news. borisjohnson is in northern ireland for crucial talks to try to restore the stormont government, amid continued tension over the prime minister's brexit plans. arriving for talks with leaders of northern ireland's main political parties this morning, mrjohnson said his priority was to restore devolved government to stormont: clearly, the people of northern ireland have been without a government, without stormont, for two years and six months, so my prime focus this morning is to do everything i can to help that to get up and running again, because i think that's profoundly in the interests of the people here. poor access to counselling and support is one of the reasons most of those who report rape later withdraw their allegations,
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london's victims‘ commissioner has said. a review by the victims‘ commissioner claire waxman has revealed only 3% of allegations result in a conviction. she now wants drastic changes made to the way victims are dealt with by the police and the justice system. and we‘ll be hearing from london victims‘ commissioner, claire waxman, who conducted the london rape review, later in the programme. a "social emergency" which the prime minister must take "personal responsibility" for — that‘s how a group of mps is describing the increase in violence among young people in england and wales. the number of people aged 16—to—24 who‘ve been violently killed went up by 50% in the year to march 2018. the home affairs select committee is calling for youth service funding to be ringfenced. the government says police funding is increasing by more than £1 billion this year, and 20,000 more officers are being recruited. north korea has fired two
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short—range ballistic missiles off its east coast for the second time in a week, according to the south korean military. the north is reportedly angry about planned military exercises involving the south and the united states, an annual event which the allies have refused to cancel. the missiles flew for around 250 kiliometres before landing in the sea. homes and businesses have been hit by flash flooding in north yorkshire. witnesses reported roads around some towns in the yorkshire dales were impassable. the met office said the downpours had resulted in two inches of rain falling in about an hour across parts of northern england. that‘s the news for now, back to victoria. rape is one of the most devastating and traumatic experiences. yet rape prosecutions in england and wales have fallen to their lowest rate in more than five years.
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today sees the release of a major review of rape cases in london — seen by this programme — which calls for an urgent overhaul of the criminaljustice system for victims. the london rape review looked in depth at 501 allegations of rape, made across london in april 2016. and it provides the clearest picture to date of reported rape in the capital. it reveals that only 6% of allegations reached trial, with 3% resulting in a conviction. the average length of time from the date of reporting to the trial outcome is 18 months. 58% of victims withdrew the allegation. almost three in five offences took place in a private or domestic setting, with 28% of all allegations relating to domestic abuse. in response, victims‘ commissioner for london, claire waxman, has come up with a series of recommendations. these include — a three month limit
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for third parties to provide materials to aid an investigation — such as medical records, social service notes and counselling records. that the cps should only request therapy notes to show the impact of the crime on the victim and not for any other purpose. that the police and cps should undergo specialist trauma training to make sure the best evidence is gathered with minimum impact on the victim. the met police have told us they welcome the publication of this research. i‘ve been speaking to claire waxman, london victims‘ commissioner who conducted the london rape review and chris tuck who reported her childhood sexual abuse for the third time in 2016. chris, you were sexually abused as a child, again as a teenager, and in both instances you went to the police and in both instances, no further action was taken at that time. you decide to go back again in
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2016. why was that? i just thought the climate had changed. the enquiry had come along, the independent enquiry into child sexual abuse and i went through the proof project to share my lived experiences so i could make my experiences count for something. they asked me there, did you want your information passed to the police and i thought, why not, may be at last i can getjustice for what i went through as a child, because it has impacted me in my life to today. do you feel you are getting justice, we are now three yea rs getting justice, we are now three years on. we are three years on. no. throughout the case, one of the police officers truly did believe what she was told, and she felt that it would go to court, but obviously it would go to court, but obviously it hasn‘t and i am now fighting through the victims rights review and the victims code. we thought we
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might get the no further action overturned, however, we can‘t get it overturned, however, we can‘t get it overturned, so now we are taking out a private criminal prosecution to get the justice we think we deserve. it sounds exhausting. time and time again you have gone through this. how has the process been for you? as you said, it‘s very emotionally draining, very exhausting. but the fa ct we draining, very exhausting. but the fact we have, or i have in my particular instance, there is enough evidence, but it‘s not in the public interest to prosecute, really angers me, because there is clearly enough evidence, but why are they not taking it further? ifeel like because it is not going to court, the perpetrator, or alleged perpetrator, is not being charged, therefore the world sees that as, he‘s getting away, he is innocent, and we are telling lies, and that‘s just not the truth. i understand you
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we re just not the truth. i understand you were asked to hand over your phone, your social media accounts. we are talking about abuse that happened decades before social media even existed. how did you feel about those kinds of requests?‘ existed. how did you feel about those kinds of requests? a bit flabbergasted, really. iasked those kinds of requests? a bit flabbergasted, really. i asked them, what has this got to do with non—recent abuse cases, for the exact reason you said. they said, because rape cases had collapsed in a public manner, that all cases of rape and non—recent abuse, where evenif rape and non—recent abuse, where even if there was sexual abuse, sexual assault, they were all being reviewed and that was the point that was being made and everyone had to go through that. it actually delayed oui’ go through that. it actually delayed our case by another 18 weeks because we had to give over all our social media. but the police didn‘t even know how to do that. how to process it? how to process it, yes. i
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downloaded it and sent it to them on a stick and i was told, that it can‘t be done like that and they have to do it themselves and there was a backlog will stop it was so frustrating because we were on the verge of getting a charging decision, and it was another three months dot we didn‘t know it would be another three months, 18 weeks. it dragged on and on and it‘s exhausting to live like that day to day. claire waxman, two and a half yea rs day. claire waxman, two and a half years on from when chris first went to the police, her case is still being processed. your report is looking at 500 cases from 2016. how common are the sort of experiences chris has spoken about here and described? sadly very common. that's why it was important for us to look at and do this comprehensive study. during the month of april 2016, we took any reported rape to the met police and tracked there was 501 cases through the system to really understand what was causing the
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delays and what was happening in the charging decision process, or policing decision process, and how many we re policing decision process, and how many were actually getting to court and then conviction. it was really important we got that information because we know that charging decisions and conviction rates have dropped but we need to understand what is driving that and this report gives an in—depth look into what is driving those issues. what do you think is causing this? is it delays, as you were describing, chris, or is it other things? some people might say there are false allegations in some cases. all the research that has been done into false allegations, the cps did research in 2014, and it is 3%, so there is misplaced belief that false allegations are rife, they are not. that goes along with other deeply entrenched myths that stops victims getting the justice they need. it is the way the justice system is
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structured as well. everything is around really focusing on the victim and scrutinising them to see if they are credible oran and scrutinising them to see if they are credible or an ideal victim. most victims, from what we have seen in the research, do not come across asideal in the research, do not come across as ideal because they are suffering from trauma, so the inconsistencies in memory that we see, it plays against them and they are not seen as credible. but there is a reality to that and there is research as to why they present in that way and it is completely understandable. we need the justice system to start to see the process through the lens of trauma and change the way they investigate and prosecute these cases. the ministry ofjustice have told us they are conducting a review into why rape convictions have declined. why do you think that is? asi declined. why do you think that is? as i say, there are a number of reasons. we have seen an increase in reporting, so victims have had more confidence over the years to come forward but it is still very underreported. but when they come forward they are not being treated
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in the right way during the investigation. the questioning process, the types of questions they asked, it exacerbates the trauma and they can't give the best evidence. we are layering on top lots of different processes around looking at third party material, counselling and medical records, and we have seen digital evidence come into sharp focus and that all plays a pa rt sharp focus and that all plays a part in preventing victims from progressing. picking up on the personal data point. data can be collected from a range of sources like mobile phones and social media, but also counselling records as well. the cps has told us that personal data are not relevant to the case will not be shared with the defence or used in court. there are well—established safeguards they say that prevent the disclosure of such sensitive information. i can see you shaking your head and raising your eyebrows. what do you make of that? that is their position, and that is the right position, but on the ground unfortunately that is not happening. we have got it in the report and we have seen, somebody
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going into court, photos of her smiling at messages between her and her mother that are unreasonable and not in relation to her testimony have been used to discredit her in court. that had a big impact not just onjustice for her court. that had a big impact not just on justice for her but also her ability to recover from the experience, so sensitive material is absolutely being used. they are taking material from counselling records sometimes, phones more often than not, and saying they will not necessarily disclose, but they have to look at it and see if there is anything at all undermine the prosecution or defence. but there is still a huge impact on the victim through that process, that they are not recognising. did you feel pressurised to hand over this content and did you feel it would be used to discredit you in anyway?” handed mine over with pleasure because i thought, if you can find anything in there that will help you, great. there is nothing in there will make you think any
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different. because we know we are telling the truth. however, even in the cps letters i have, it clearly states that they have taken information off my social media which is completely out of context with the case, something to do with my tax bill, and they have said that it would make me an incredible witness. wow, is that even legal? all lawful? what they are doing in my mind is a fishing expedition. we are structured on these myths and stereotypes that anyone coming forward , stereotypes that anyone coming forward, we almost have to prove they are lying. and that's really what i feel the whole process does, it looks into every aspect of their life to prove they are credible or prove they are lying. we are looking at material that isn't necessarily reasonable or proportionate to be looked at, and taking it out of context, looking at it in isolation to discredit the victim, and that is happening time and time again. just
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to play devils advocate on this, let‘s say victims did not want to, understandably, hand over all this data, and they think perhaps it will make them more vulnerable. they already feel like a victim and don‘t wa nt to already feel like a victim and don‘t want to be victimised further. could that mean the cps would not have a strong folder of evidence to secure a conviction? what do you make of that argument, chris first?” a conviction? what do you make of that argument, chris first? i think maybe you are right in a sense that if there is some evidence that is really strong that corroborates someone‘s allegation of abuse, then that would be really good. but i think it‘s up to the individual to give that permission for that to be used. so if they found something, then ask permission because as a victim, a survivor, you already disempowered. as soon as you enter the criminal justice disempowered. as soon as you enter the criminaljustice system, you feel like they take over your whole life and you don‘t have a say in any more. i think if we are changing the
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criminal justice system, more. i think if we are changing the criminaljustice system, it should be about empowerment of the victim as well. the whole digital media disempowered. claire waxman, what do we do about this? we have a 58% withdrawal rate for these kinds of cases so how do we change that?” make clear recommendations and the biggest one is around the trauma reform process that we need to start putting into practice from the police, the cps and all the way through. talking about how they question victims and support them through the process to get better evidence and helping the cps in theircharging evidence and helping the cps in their charging decisions as well. they admit that if testimony changes and there are inconsistencies then it will work against the victim and the charging process, so they don't understand how trauma works and that isa understand how trauma works and that is a key issue. chris talks about being disempowered. being a victim makes you disempowered and then the justice system this empowers you further, so we need to look at
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empowering victims, especially for your scrutinising them in this way, which is why i ask for an independent legal support to be given to victims, so there is someone in their corner looking at what is requested by the police and make sure their rights to privacy are being upheld and they have a right to respond to the material if it is being taken out of context, to give it an equal playing field and balance those rights. really interesting, thank you to you both for coming in. and if you‘ve been affected by issues in this discussion, there are a range of organisations and websites that can offer you advice and support. you can find them listed on the bbc‘s actionline website at bbc.co.uk/actionline. boris johnson has been meeting party leaders in northern ireland this morning to help efforts to restore the power—sharing government.
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we can cross to stormont and here from sinn fein leader mary lou mcdonald. we have met with boris johnson. we have had a fairly extensive conversation with him, in which we have raised the issue of brexit, his chorus of action which seems to us to indicate that he has set the compass for a disorderly and crash brexit. we have challenged him very strongly on that policy, setting out very clearly that this would be catastrophic for the irish economy, for irish livelihoods, for our society, for our politics, and for our peace accord. we have made it clear to him that the extensive planning that he tells us he is carrying out in respect of a potential crash brexit has to include the constitutional question and the issue of a border poll here
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in ireland. we have stated to him very clearly that brexit in any event, but certainly a disorderly brexit, represents, in any body give‘s language, a dramatic change of circumstances on this island and it would be unthinkable in those circumstances that people would not be given the opportunity to decide on ourfuture be given the opportunity to decide on our future together. that‘s a conversation that we will continue with the prime minister. we have also raised the issue of talks, the re—establishment of power—sharing government, sustainable government. we have rehearsed again with him the outstanding issues, issues which you will recall are about rights, citizens fundamental rights, and you can see the rights represented here with protesters that have gathered this morning. we have made clear to him that the ongoing indulgence of
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the dup and rejectionist unionism needs to stop. and that he has the head of government needs to make clear to the dup that they can no longer continue to deny language rights, marriage equality rights, deny women‘s rights. and we have raised the issue of the past and truth and legacy with him also. we have advised him that his commentary thus far on these issues as british prime minister has been damaging and very, very dangerous. we have reminded him of british obligations as per the stormont house agreement. and he has told us he will not resile from the stormont house agreement. he says that his government remains committed, between the five parties and the two governments. so we have challenged him to make sure the necessary legislation is therefore brought forward. he tells us he will act
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with absolute impartiality. we have told him that nobody believes that. nobody believes that because there are no grounds to believe that there is any kind of impartiality, much less strict impartiality. we have told him that the confidence and supply agreement between himself and the dup, between the tories and the dup, poisoned the ground water here politically and made it very, very, very difficult to sustain a negotiation, much less to land on a conclusion or an agreement. he asked for our advice. we have strongly advised him that to make progress here he needs to ensure that he is not the dup‘s gopher. he needs to stop mollycoddling them and spell out the reality of life to them and put pressure on his unionist collea g u es put pressure on his unionist colleagues to ensure we can land on
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an equitable and sustainable agreement. in the longer term we have advised him the constitutional change that is in the air, he cannot say he hasn‘t been told. the wisest thing to do for london, as dublin, is to appreciate the change in the airand start the is to appreciate the change in the air and start the preparation now. finally, we have told him that any notion that he might crash this part of ireland out of the european union and because the level ofjeopardy and because the level ofjeopardy and damage that would entail and that people would simply take it on the chin or he can expect people to meekly go along with that is deeply misguided. the leader of sinn fein, mary lou mcdonald, speaking at stormont. prime minister boris johnson mcdonald, speaking at stormont. prime minister borisjohnson is in northern ireland for the first time since taking office. joining those political talks there, he has promised to do everything in his power to help restore the power—sharing agreement. brexit is
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still central to the talks as well. the issue over what will happen at the land border on the island of ireland after brexit and the proposed irish backstop has caused deep divisions and as you heard they are from mary lou mcdonald, between the parties at stormont. we will bring you more of what she said later in the programme if we can, and as you saw, protesters in the background there at stormont. in 2015, police turned up at the home of the former mp harvey proctor in leicestershire, presented him with a search warrant and raided his home. the police action came about after accusations made by a man called carl beech, known at the time as "nick", that mr proctor was part of a vip paedophile ring. eventually, the police investigation collapsed. and last week, carl beech was jailed for 18 years for inventing the false allegations, and for separate child sexual abuse offences.
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former high courtjudge sir richard henriques investigated the action of the metropolitan police in the case, his full report has not been released. but yesterday, sir richard wrote a piece in the daily mail, saying police may have broken the law in the way they applied for warrants to search suspects‘ homes. when doing so, the police claimed carl beech was a consistent witness. but sir richard said, at the time, beech "had not been consistent". the police watchdog, the ipoc, has cleared the officers of any misconduct and says it won‘t reopen that inquiry. let‘s talk to harvey proctor now. thank you forjoining us on the programme. we really appreciate it. good morning. lets rewind the clock a little bit and take you back to that day. how was it? the 4th of march,
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2015, four and a half years ago. a normal day until the dog started barking. i saw a police car near to my home. that‘s not unusual because i worked for the duke of rutland and i had connections with the police because i was in charge of security on the belvoir estate and the castle. what was unusual was that the detective sergeant announced when he came through the door that he was from the homicide squad of the metropolitan police and he had a search warrant to search my home. that was most unusual. of course. how has all of this affected your life? from that point, it must have been incredibly shocking. thereafter, for getting on for 18 months, there was a metropolitan police murder investigation of myself. i was alleged to have...
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fa lsely myself. i was alleged to have... falsely alleged to have murdered three children, two of which by my own hand. appalling allegations. the worst allegations that one human being can make to another, all of them false. fast forward if we can. how did you feel when you learnt that the case about you was being dropped? were you relieved in any way? that was march 21 2016. at that point, my solicitors wrote to the metropolitan police asking that nick, mr beech, be investigated for perverting the course ofjustice. the metropolitan police would not even record it as a crime. they did nothing throughout the rest of 2016
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until november eight, 2016, when the sir richard henriques report was published. and the metropolitan police were forced into getting another force, northumberland police, to investigate mr beech and then the commissioner for the metropolitan police, sir bernard hogan—howe, apologised to the other people who were falsely accused, like field marshall bramall, and lady diana brttan, whose husband had been involved in these matters. to me he apologised in writing, in public and in person. he made it clear he was wrong and the metropolitan police were wrong to search my home. the metropolitan police lawyers subsequently are saying not that. what are they saying? i have taken a civil action
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against the metropolitan police and currently they are saying that they are seeking to strike out my action against them, likely to take place in november of this year, a mini trial, two days or so, and they say if they win they will seek all their costs against me, in other words to bankrupt me. why? because they say i did not lose myjob and my home at belvoir castle because of operation midland. idid. belvoir castle because of operation midland. i did. they say it was not wrong to search my home, in contradiction of their own commissioner. that‘s wrong. and also they say that they couldn‘t determine whether mr beech was correct or not correct. well, the trial that ended last week in newcastle, of 12 charges of perverting the course ofjustice and one of fraud, and various other
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paedophile offences, because the metropolitan police‘s star witness has turned out to be a paedophile and prefer to of the course of justice, thejury and prefer to of the course of justice, the jury found that within a matter of hours he was guilty of all the charges that were brought against him. northumbria police did against him. northumbria police did a forensic and thorough job of their investigation, unlike the metropolitan police, who did not bother to investigate butjust went on television and said to your own bbc news team reporter tom symonds that it was all credible and true. the met have said they are not prepared to comment on the case outside of the legal process, that is the statement we have. what is it you hope to gain from the civil case you hope to gain from the civil case you have brought against them? well, to be put back in the same financial position i held on the 4th of march
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2015. as i say and i say again, i lost myjob and my home. why should i have to pay for the negligence and malice of the metropolitan police, in their badly organised 0peration midland investigation? and just picking up on the bbc point, if i may, in 2015, the bbc said they reported serious allegations in the public interest, which were the basis of a police murder investigation and which the police later described as credible and true. carl beech has since been exposed as a fantasist and serial liar not least by an investigation by the bbc‘s and panorama team, they say they express their utmost sympathy the falsely accused by beach and the family of martin allen. i wasn't going to raise this, but you raised the matter of the
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bbc. i think you did first, actually! well, you have done so at greater length than i have been able to do, but way out —— while i am an —— while i am on your programme, the last time i was on your programme, you had your home affairs correspondent in the studio and he got things wrong then. i think the bbc has sent mr symonds on a gap year because he has not been seen recently. let me finish, my criticism of mr symonds and the bbc is that tom symonds tried to manufacture news, he showed carl beech photographs of children i am supposed to have murdered, that is not properjournalism. can i go further? no, iam not properjournalism. can i go further? no, i am sorry, not properjournalism. can i go further? no, iam sorry, i have to stop you there. this is censorship by the bbc. i am on a live programme and you are not allowing me to give and you are not allowing me to give
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a correct answer to your question. you are prepared to repeat the statement that the bbc hierarchy have put forward in their defence, without allowing me the privilege and the honour of criticising the bbc. censorship by the bbc. i hope eve ryo ne bbc. censorship by the bbc. i hope everyone takes note of that. you have done, you had major point, thank you. not enough, there are more points. which is why i would like to move on so we are able to raise other points, would you allow me to speak because i have allowed you to speak at some length? not all the time. please let me ask you a follow—up question. you have lost your home, yourjob, it has clearly put great strain on you. many under that sort of pressure, particularly once the accuser had been found to bea once the accuser had been found to be a liar once the accuser had been found to bea liarand once the accuser had been found to be a liar and sentenced to 18 years in jail, be a liar and sentenced to 18 years injail, would be a liar and sentenced to 18 years in jail, would want be a liar and sentenced to 18 years injail, would want to move on as quickly as they can, so what is it that you hope to achieve, why fight
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on? because i have no future. my future was destroyed by the metropolitan police and by certain journalists in march 2015. to move on, i need work, i need compensation. for what happens to me in march 2015. the loss of myjob and the loss of my home. and that is what my legal team are looking for from the metropolitan police. and with regard to the metropolitan police in particular, what investigations would you like to see happen from now? well, sir richard henriques made it clear there should bea criminal henriques made it clear there should be a criminal investigation, i suggest by northumbria police, he did a thorough investigation of mr beach, of certain police officers
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who have subsequently retired from the police, but they may be subject to criminal proceedings for perverting the course ofjustice. how extraordinary it is that police officers from the metropolitan police may well be investigated for perverting the course ofjustice! secondly, the ipoc come at the independent police complaints commission, i think should be investigated, too, because they are too much chic and dealt with the police and there is a cover—up in these matters and that needs to be investigated as well. would you like to see the full report by sir richard henriques? my solicitors yesterday wrote to the metropolitan police saying that for me and for the public interest, including the media, the report should be published in full. at the earliest opportunity. what do the metropolitan police say about that? 0h, metropolitan police say about that? oh, no, we can‘t do that because people will be upset. complainants,
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victims of mr beach and witnesses. well, let‘s see, the witnesses that mr beach put forward at his trial, fred, aubrey, john, figments of his imagination, they do not exist. victims, lord bramall, isaw yesterday, and myself are calling for the publication of the report. the complainant, are the metropolitan police saying they are not publishing the report because of the impact it might have on mr beech, serving 18 years in prison? that is farcical! the reason they don‘t want to publish it is because of the content on it which will not help their case, they are protecting police officers, they are protecting themselves. mr proctor, do you think you will be able at any point to move on? i don't know. ask me when i settle with the metropolitan police or rather, they settle with me. at
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that time, i am perfectly happy to come and talk to you again to see what my position is. yes, i am angry. i don‘t think i am bitter. i think i have every right to be angry with what has happened to me and two other, the likes of field marshal lord bramall and lady britain, they lost their loved ones without them knowing that innocence prevailed. we look forward to hopefully having you back on the programme, thank you very much forjoining us. thank you. still to come... the rise in levels of serious violence, such as knife stabbings, amongst young people is a social emergency, says a new report by a cross—party of mps. we‘ll be looking at what we need to do to keep our communities safe. and "unconscious bias" can lead to racism, even if people do not consider themselves to be racist
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claims the duke of sussex. so, is he right? borisjohnson should take "personal responsibility" for tackling knife and gun crime among young people, according to a cross—party group of mps. the home affairs select committee‘s latest report say the government‘s serious violence strategy is inadequate and that there needs to be urgent action. the mps are calling on the government to reverse cuts to youth services, increase police numbers and introduce a ‘youth service guarantee‘ — to prevent young people getting involved in crime. they also say that schools in areas with a higher risk of youth violence should be given dedicated police officers. in the studio this morning is george turner, who runs a boxing gym and youth service in south london.
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also here is rosemary watt—wyness, who is the chair of the charity london youth. david simmonds from the local government association is also here, and michelle mcphillips, who lost her son to knife crime also joins us. michelle, i would like to start with you. tell is about your son. my son, jonathonjames you. tell is about your son. my son, jonathon james mcphillips was you. tell is about your son. my son, jonathonjames mcphillips was a 28—year—old man slaughtered in islington on the 24th of february 2017. he was out on a night which was unusual because he didn‘t normally go out. and basically, he went and he saw somebody younger than him being stabbed and he went forward to help them and, u nfortu nately, forward to help them and, unfortunately, the outcome of that was the death of my son. to lose a child is every parent‘s biggest
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fear, but you have turned your grief into something else, a force for change, i guess, tell me about the work you are doing. the work that i do is work you are doing. the work that i doisi work you are doing. the work that i do is i work with a charity and i go into the schools and we intervene with the kids in the schools, explain the rules about knife crime, how not to get involved, how to stay away from this type of thing and what to do if you are being intimidated to become a gang member, or you are being asked to carry weapons for somebody else. we also do parent groups as well, where we speak to the parents and let the pa rents speak to the parents and let the parents know what to look out for whenever they think their child is involved, we can put them in touch with other governing bodies to help sort this out. rose me, you also work directly with young people and five other youth organisations across the capital as well. what are they telling you about some of the struggles they are facing? yes, so, at london youth, we have 500 youth
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organisations who are part of our network and i think what we kind of hearagain and again network and i think what we kind of hear again and again is the cuts to youth services have had, as michelle just spoke about, have had tragic consequences. and what people are saying to us is what the government has set out about the public health approach is the right approach, but is not going to make the difference we need to see unless it has got proper, sustained funding behind it and we are just not seeing that seriousness at the moment.” and we are just not seeing that seriousness at the moment. i know you have had some input into this report, haven‘t you? part of the recommendations was this idea that mps are calling for now dedicated police for the most violent of schools, do you think that will help and make things better or worse? what is your view? i mean, and make things better or worse? what is yourview? i mean, i and make things better or worse? what is your view? i mean, i think it is an interesting point. the point that we really kind of think
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is crucial is about investing in local community youth services. you know, it is places outside school that feels safe to young people where they choose to go, where they can interact with and build relationships with trusted adults like we see at george's gym. it is those places in our communities we need to invest in. george, let's bring you income that you have your own way of tackling violent crime can have effectively built a whole community and a family, i guess, in this boxing gym in battersea, who goes there and what are you able to do for them? we are open to all and we want everyone to come down and get involved, but we target 11—13 year old people from a disadvantaged background. it could be they have been involved in offending, they have mental health and physical health issues, special educational needs. but we don't want to just pigeonhole people and have them only
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associating with like for like. we wa nt associating with like for like. we want to bring in other people for them to network with which is why we open up to the mainstream, and we do our free boxing sessions followed with free food and youth club. and we also offer long—term help, so the long term was to create a community and family for young people to belong to and we want to mimic the parents in offering long—term, consistent, unconditional support, with empathy for those who are most in need. so we really want to try and target those who everyone else is kind of leaving behind because it takes a long time in order to turn them around. so, when you look at funding and when you look at results, people want to see results in one two, three years, but if you really wa nt in one two, three years, but if you really want to work with those costing society than most, involved in some of the more serious youth violence, you need to have a long—term plan for those people.
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now, in some instances, some of the people going to a gym have already gone down that road and have been involved in violent crime may be. how do you turn their lives around? because you have experience of doing this, what works? long-term support, long—term support and unconditional support, never having a policy of, this is not going to work for you, we are going to exclude you and not allow you to access the services. having boundaries and consequences and they sometimes need to be punishable consequences, but never excluding and pushing away. to show these young people we care and to show them there are opportunities and real—life opportunities that they can access, but they need to put the working for it to happen. david, let‘s talk about consequences, funding cuts have consequences, funding cuts have consequences, don‘t they? consequences, funding cuts have consequences, don't they? they do, i am hopeful that the prime minister who faced a similar upsurge in youth violence as mayor of london, will have good ideas and the instinct to support the kind of work we have been hearing about because for
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councils, this is a hugely frustrating situation. we have had really good examples of what you heard about from george and many local communities across london and the rest of the country, many of those things have been lost simply because councils have lost more than half the funding they receive from central government and have had to prioritise the most urgent activities. we would like to be able to put a lot of that back because we can see exactly what it is that can help young people to be put back on the right path and keep our community safe in the future. we have this perfect storm of youth service cuts, police cuts, more children being excluded from school and perhaps in some instances a failure of statutory agencies to keep them safe. let‘s be honest, david, how likely do you really think the spending cuts we have seen across the board are going to be reversed? well, councils can keep the show on the road, the concept of public health is based on what councils do in the victorian period to tackle the diseases that were a huge player in our neighbourhood and
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identifying the different factors the police alone and the nhs alone cannot tackle because councils have access to that information. many others are already investing in supporting groups like george‘s and providing dissenters, but we are putting great pressure on government and we have messages saying there will be an increase in spending in these areas —— and providing youth centres. more police is a big step in the right direction, but that needs to be in parallel with investment in a kind of youth services that make the difference in the way councils have a proven track record of doing. george, you are a practical man, is any of the stuff in this report achievable?” practical man, is any of the stuff in this report achievable? i think it is achievable if people believe in it and understand and recognise that and truly believe that long—term support is what is needed, andl long—term support is what is needed, and i think, yes, definitely. we have seen it in the local authority lam have seen it in the local authority i am working in with teenage pregnancy in the past, they had a long—term plan and they waited and waited and waited and eventually,
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those results came in because they we re those results came in because they were not expected to fix the problem in one, two, three years, it was a long—term process. sol in one, two, three years, it was a long—term process. so i think it can be, but people really need to believe in it and it needs to not be the rhetoric of, it is going to be a public health approach. well, show us how, what are you doing to show that you are actually believing in this concept and investing in this concept? yes, absolutely. thank you so much, we have run out of time for this discussion. michelle, thank you also for your contribution as well, thank you. boris johnson has been meeting party leaders in northern ireland this morning — to help efforts to restore the power—sharing government. let‘s get the latest from our reporter sarah gurvin at stormont. yes, the prime minister boris johnson arrived at stormont after 8am this morning to meet with the five main political parties in northern ireland, with the hope of getting devolution restored.
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northern ireland has been without a functioning devolved government for two and a half years and in a statement, borisjohnson said, put simply, this is much too long. his statement didn‘t say anything about brexit, but of course, that is on the table for discussion today, as is the other word we keep hearing so much about, the issue of the irish backstop which has been such a bone of contention in the eu withdrawal negotiations. the prime minister once that backstop stopped. the leader of the dup arlene foster agrees, and her party backs up the conservatives in parliament. 0n the other hand, we heard from sinn fein‘s mary lou mcdonald and she says it is the least that would need to be put in place to stop a hard border in ireland and this is what she had to say earlier. we have had a fairly extensive conversation with him. in which we have raised the issue of brexit. his course of
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action, which seems to us to indicate that he has set the compass for a disorderly and a crash brexit. we have challenged him very strongly on that policy, we have set out very clearly that this would be catastrophic for the irish economy. for irish livelihoods. for our society, for our politics and for our peace accord. and after commenting on their discussions with the prime minister was the ulster unionist party and this is what they had to say. we have just had a meeting with the prime minister and as i said on the way in, there were a number of issues that we did raise with him. he listened to us and i think he is on the same page as a lot of the concerns that we have, that the people of northern ireland have. he wants to see these institutions back up wants to see these institutions back up and running again but, as was very clear and we made clear to him,
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the time is short so he doesn't have a lot of time to get his feet under the table to work out the intricacies of what is happening. we need to get onto less and get it done because if we don't get it done by 31st of october, the uk is coming out with a no—deal and he made that clear. so, as always in northern ireland, very many and very complex issues to be discussed and it seems very unlikely that one day of talks is going to resolve any of them. we have had commencing about harvey proctor‘s appearance on the programme a few months ago, talking of course about the carl beech case and the false allegations, carl beech jailed for 18 years. simon on twitter says, harvey proctor has been rammed along with us in the way that most of us will never understand. he has a right to be compensated —— he has been around. the bbc shutting him down on live tv is just wrong. on twitter, my
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sympathy 100% lies with harvey proctor. if he is very angry, i don‘t blame him. to go through what he has had to experience would destroy anybody‘s life. and john on e—mail, good luck, harvey, i hope you are successful in your proceedings against the met, what you and others have had to go to is absolutely disgusting. so those comments coming in at live. if you wa nt to comments coming in at live. if you want to on the programme and all the topics we are covering, it is hashtag victoria life. "you can only be taught how to hate". that‘s what prince harry has said about racism in an interview with september‘s vogue magazine, which was guest—edited by his wife, meghan. he said, "if you go up to someone and say, ‘what you‘ve just told me is racist,‘ they‘ll turn around and say, ‘i‘m not a racist‘." many commentators have pointed out that the duchess of sussex was criticised for guest—editing vogue, when the duchess of cambridge has appeared on the front cover,
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and prince harry has guest—edited the bbc‘s today programme. during the interview, prince harry also talked about the environment, making a promise that has dominated today‘s tabloid front pages — that the couple will only have two children, in order to reduce their environmental impact on the world. well, joining me now is dr doyin atewologun, director of the gender, leadership & inclusion centre at cranfield school of management and lead author of the equality and human rights commission report on the effectiveness of ‘unconscious bias training‘. and the youtuber zeze millz. and blade, a musician from woolwich who was on their strike until climate change ends. anzac plenty from the green party. thank you for joining us. —— and, zach, from the green party. starting with you, zeze, is it fair to say that meghan,
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the duchess of sussex, comes in for more. . . fla k than her sister—in—law? absolutely, we have seen that she continues to be bullied by the press andi continues to be bullied by the press and i have said this before on the show that i think she doesn‘t fit in with the narrative of what they think a princess should be. and i think a princess should be. and i think that is the problem. and there isa think that is the problem. and there is a lot of underlying racism. as prince harry said, a lot of people don‘t believe that they are being racist but to me, i would say it definitely is underlying.” racist but to me, i would say it definitely is underlying. i can see you nodding your head, dr doyin, i guess an agreement. prince harry also honed in about this idea of unconscious bias and said, so many people don‘t understand why they feel the way they do and stigma is handed down from generation to generation. if people are unaware about why they feel the way they do,
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how are they able to change it? you make a really good point around the power of unconscious bias or implicit bias existing outside our awareness. but the research suggests that by raising it into awareness and then doing something about it, that we can actually change it. there is lots of evidence about some other things we can do to reduce the impact of unconscious or implicit bias. 0k, impact of unconscious or implicit bias. ok, let's talk about what is going on with climate change. two things, first, harry and meghan, these comments that they would only have two children because they said to have more would be irresponsible in terms of the planet. we have also had this big with pelt from the met office saying the hottest ten years have happened since 2002 —— this big report. they say this is because of the effect of rising greenhouse
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gases. don‘t we know all this and what could be done about it? first, to you. it is amazing that they have brought it up and the article is really great. my main point is not about how many children we are having at this point in time. obviously, population numbers do affect how much resources we use. but really, the climate crisis is at such an urgent point that it is almost too late to talk about that. do you think you might have children in the future? i won't be having children unless i see widespread systematic change. we need to transform how we live. so your decision not to have children at this point in time is because of climate change? absolutely, yes, not only climate change but the inaction of our governments and authorities and the people in power to do anything about it. it has been lobbied, the climate denial has been
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funded for the last 30 years and thatis funded for the last 30 years and that is why we are coming to this late in the game. what you make of this committee think it is helpful to say only two children? they are in the public eye. you say, don't we know this? the answer is, no, i don't think we do. the ipcc report says we have 12 years to stop raising temperatures going to 2 degrees, we can keep them at 1.5 degrees, we can keep them at 1.5 degrees and that is still bad but 2 degrees and that is still bad but 2 degrees as bangladesh underwater and whole areas of africa been uninhabitable. this is notjust alarmist, there are lots of things we can do and lots of things we are calling on the government to do like making homes energy efficient, better public transport, promoting walking and cycling and ending fossil fuels and fracking. on that list, is two children or under on that list, is it helpful? children is about individual responsibility and the green party are talking about systemic change, it is much bigger than individuals, it is about
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all of us taking individual responsibility and much more importantly calling upon government in the uk and across the world to join together and say things like, let's end fracking and factory farming ofanimals, let's end fracking and factory farming of animals, and let's make sure we have a green britain. ok, we could talk about both these topics for a very long time but i think we are running out of time. doyin and zeze, thank you for your time. and also, thank you very much for coming again, zach and blythe. that was lively, wasn‘t it? the show is on during the entire working week. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. thank you for your company today. have a good day. hello there, torrential downpours brought flash flooding to parts of northern england. heavy and sunny downpours. you can see that in the picture here, the result of flash flooding in parts of north yorkshire. for the rest of the day,
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further heavy thundery showers across parts of scotland, northern england and northern parts of the midlands, northern wales and east anglia and there could be disruption, some hale and thunder and lightning and torrential rain. further south, a drier picture than yesterday with sunny spells, one or two showers and similar in northern ireland with less wind in the south than yesterday. tonight, this area of low pressure brings this u nsettled of low pressure brings this unsettled weather and pushes towards the east. tomorrow is simply looking like a day of sunny spells and showers, shower is where we do see them again could be heavy, possibly thundery. in between, dry weather and sunny spells, temperatures at a maximum of 25 celsius.
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you‘re watching bbc newsroom live — it‘s 11am and these are the main stories this morning: boris johnson‘s in northern ireland for talks aimed at restoring the stormont government, amid continued tension over his brexit plans. clearly northern ireland has been without a government for two and a have years so my prime focus this morning as to do everything i can to help that get up and running again, thatis help that get up and running again, that is profoundly and the interest of people here. the leader of sinn fein says things cannot remain the same if britain leaves the eu without a deal. f wallacejohnson f wallace johnson does f wallacejohnson does the wrong thing by citizens here,

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