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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  January 16, 2022 3:30am-4:01am AST

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to invest a new renewable technology, st. glenn technologies in africa, i'd make use of the community in africa. that's is the cheap, the cheapest option we should sell now. and that's what the wild features jaffar abduct mine says. all he wants is a clean and a more reliable pass horse to run his business. catherine, sorry, i'll to 0 or stop it. can you? ah, it's good to have a with a slo, adrian finnegan here. so how the headlines and al jazeera, as an army has hit the pacific island nation of tomba. after an undersea volcano erupted. but there's no word on casualties. us phone lines are down waves more than a meter in height. hit fiji, found a was who and american samoa. so now the alerts, the advisor is, are in place for parts of japan. and the western united states. to find tennis walked on the one of our jock of inches in court in australia to appeal the
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decision to revoke his visa for a 2nd time. the hearing is taking place just a day before the australian open begins. sarah clark has more of what the government's lawyers have been arguing. they're stating that dr. bitches high profile status and his high profile views. i use anti vaccination kind of status so he's often opposed mat vaccination. they're saying that could fue, the anti vaccination sentiment. now, jock ventures legal team is saying that they presented no evidence that warrants are his deportation and that jock of it is a public risk. they're saying that the minister took in a legal and a rational approach and of sot, had no evidence that he is this public health risks in australia. earlier on since the anti vaccination demonstrators gathered in melbourne, demanding no bank joke of his release. they called on the star to be allowed to play in the australian open opinion polls though, suggest that a majority of australians feel that junk of it should be sent home the breaching the country strict cove at 19 rules. beijing is reported its 1st community case of
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the alma chron variant of cove at 19 positive cases from the cities northwestern. heidi and district china detected its few 1st community acquired infection of omicron last week in the northern city of tianjin, prompting a lockdown. the country is less than 3 weeks away now from staging the winter olympics with bay jing as one of the venues hospitals in the intensive care units in peru of filling to capacity as the alma cronan delta variance surge across the country. the number of new infections is now at its highest, ever sewing to 30000 a day. half of the cove at 19 patients in peruse, hospitals are unvaccinated. 2 thirds of peru has been fully vaccinated. the country has the highest corona virus death rates in the world. are. those are the headlights that he's continues. he announces era after stays inside story. next. ah,
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his son is ready to make peace with its neighbors, including india, the prime minister, emron. com says economic diplomacy will now be at the heart of foreign affairs. it's all part of the country's new national security policy, but will it work? this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm pete, adobe. pakistan's prime minister has launched the country's 1st ever national security policy. it seeks to shift the focus away from the military to what you
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might call a citizen centric framework. and it aims to have economic security as its core. m ranken says pakistan has been in dire need of a strategy that ensures the protection of its people and guards, economic interests. opposition parties have criticized the government for not taking their input into account. when formulating the policy will begin our main discussion in a moment. first, let's take a closer look at the economic challenges that lie ahead. pakistan has top the list of 10 countries with the highest external debt. rising unemployment and poverty. and the pandemic has exacerbated that pushing the nation's poverty levels to nearly 40 percent. the government is struggling with inflation. in october, the pakistani repeat dropped to a record low against the us dollar. the country has also been facing skyrocketing prices of essential commodities, oil, gas, and wheat. and pakistan is also grappling with the economic fall out from the volatility across the border in afghanistan,
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after the taliban took over last year. the 1st joining us from the hor, is marie yourself national security advisor to him rank on the pakistani prime minister massachuset. welcome to inside story, looking at the non redacted 50 page published version, the abridged version of this new policy. big on large, sweeping ideas, very, very short on detail. how do you make it work? thank your 1st of all, can, let's understand that that would be ideal is or reaping ideas. as you call them, you're not going to have interaction. we've had multiple multiple sector policies like any other country, but we were missing an umbrella which toward us which told our citizens unrestored, the one, but just on the statement of intent for excel. that's what the, the bridge version that you have tells you. it tells you that this is
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a country that wants to move, to have beach in the region, a country that's focused on economic security on g o economics. in dunden with us strategy. looking at one of the ships looking at using its location of the crossroads of south asia, central asia, west asia for connectivity. that's the future where buckets on want to go. now when you talk about what you want to do to get there, there's a whole menu of things specific things that, of course, are not going to be in the public document which will be worked on onset lines to dig the direction that, that we've laid out but this is not a policy that says that we got to do one part of national security ahead of the other. the real issue for buckets thought is on national resource by is not large enough to get to adequately to our people. we are the 5th largest country, the 220000000 people, so that regional spy has to increase to bit taken on the performance to better
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exports to fundraiser investment. and remington says, you've got to work out that extend an imbalance bond, and then we can redistribute much more to our human welfare and to our traditional and military security. so this is, this is going forward a paradigm shift, not in terms of moving from one year to another, but getting everything in line so that everybody gains all the misuse. it's just to answer up to there for a 2nd please. why not? if it's a paradigm shift, why do it only in english? because both documents are composed written in english. why not do in our do the language of your country because the stake holders and all this, just let me finish the stakeholders and all this are the people of pakistan and why keep so much of it secret? just publish the whole thing so everyone can get involved in this conversation. so 1st of all, are you absolutely right? and the, some of the document is already been translated into, into although,
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and the larger document is also interested in and will be out because that's exactly what we want. we want it to be in the country with one intellectual input we. we want critique. so that is happening as far as why not lay out everything, no country does it. and that a strategy, he's at a po mother document of this nature of course because they can be interpreted and misinterpreted. and then it's national security policy though there are certain things that actually are never mean modeling. but we haven't put out a summary of who bid is be put out of 5060 page documents, which lays out very clearly the direction of where pakistan is going. and each sentence in each section, if you read it, you will know that if you what policy actions are. busy beneath those backs exactly how policies are implemented. ok, that part of was is, will remain classified your short published at the moment version talks about a civil slash military consensus. so you, you want to, you want to get people to hang on to that word. there's, there's a broad consensus here, i guess. but the consensus didn't include the opposition politicians in the
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parliament in islamabad. this sounds like a route and branch. reinvention of the country post. that's called it. what it is post partition going back to 1947. this is like him, ranken is saying, i want to take the country to its next iteration. it's next version. what the country will become in a generation or 2 generations. how can you say you've got a consensus if the opposition politicians are not involved in this? that don't make any sense. first of all, policy making involves not only the government, not only civil military provinces, but this is the federal structure in terms of governance. not all problems is either the word by the party in the center. in addition, the parliament has a committee or national security where such man does this policy mistaken, that we made a presentation and everybody was that gave input. so it is not connect. i think that information is wrong. other than that politics is politics. i don't belong to
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that world the let's see what it says. this is a document that know about just any government i can get into you when you go back on the other, not too big elephant in the room. that the document that i've read today seems discuss around it's the taliban having taken over afghanistan. your country shares a border, quite a porous border in some areas of 2640 kilometers between pakistan. afghanistan. that's elephant number one. elephant number 2 is kashmir, and until you resolve or work with those 2 big issues and get them both moving in the right direction. this idea of reinventing the country direction of travel is a non starter until you work through those issues, not skirt around them. i'm not sure i've respected them on of understand the different than the room is not the fun coming in or not the elephant in the room if you want to call it that is lack of stability enough and stuff. and that's why it's
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very clearly stated that even in the public document, but at all costs like a son needs and wants an upfront a stable. that's why things. yeah. but also attend the problem. i mean, we've been going around to everybody in the world and saying, make sure we are right in the systems to average up the country doesn't collapse because it will collapse it back and try to get to refugees. that there is a problem. we don't get the connected need for i cannot grow to central asia cetera . so there's no getting around that. we need that and we will work for that and do whatever we get. and we will work into that, i think by becoming a partner. but it is concern, i think it's fairly clearly. unfortunately it takes 2 to tango and in that case, are you still flying right now? is exhibiting a behavior in terms of an indian government bad? i don't need to say much. all of the western press release and press is coming it every day. the way that approaching this extremist hindered by what they're doing
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with minorities, they believe that nobody else in the region possibly has the right to exist. they picked up a fight with china. the emissions with everybody is jaundiced right now it does be that the diving in has gone bonkers. the problem is that you've got a fascist, and unfortunately the wireless load decided because the thing is going to become a counter with, you know, whatever. but it is the only counter this countries bank is under and said it's very unfortunate. it's the largest country in south asia. but i see very, very bad times coming. i had put india now didn't. that is the case. there is no logic that can be applied. i mean it's, it's not a d i. d. ology is use. if i'm going to put you there and say thank you very much, but we have nobody from the indian government directly to receive on to what you've just said. thank you so much for joining us for a little more use. if there are an advisor to a pakistani prime minister emron can. okay,
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let's go to our guests. joining us from islamabad, cheryl as parisha defense and strategy analyst and in law, we have robert actor, the director for security strategy and policy research at the university of la hor to both of you a warm welcome to inside story. at sher as coming to 1st, you are listening there to my conversation with mr. usa in law. on the one hand, it's touchy feely international diplomacy, but he wrapped up the conversation by describing the indian government as a fascist state. yes, this is a indeed it problem with pakistan serve, you know, the relationship, it's perception of india and then pakistani, you know, the many of them in pakistan, establishment military people in politics. they proudly say we are india centric and in their bay. enmity with india is celebrated in pakistan and it's happening for the last 70 years since 1948. we are stuck in, in a, in
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a situation with this mindset that india is seen as an enemy and we want to wipe up india from the world map and india lars, to why above or describe pakistan. unless this mindset, this narrative changes. i don't think in real meaningful change will occur in this policy, which they are, you know, spinning and saying, and promoting as the post about national policy. it could have been a, you know, meaningful, real meaningful if pakistan would say that india is other renewal in a very, you know, in a healthy way level could be, you know, in economics, in trade, in different nocka, not an enemy which we aim to destroy. and the enemy wants to destroyers. so this is a problem. robbie in law these broad brush strokes of intent,
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sound fantastic. they look really good on paper. the reality is, is going to cost and cost. a lot of money. pakistan already has record levels of external borrowing. where does the money or the economy come from to generate the cash to pay for all this? do just do i, you know, contextualize this. i do foresee this national security policy as a paradigm shared because it was me as a citizen of pakistan, an individual at the heart of it. but while it does that, it does not take anything away from the traditional threads that are facing pakistan. and india is one of them. as my fellow panelists said that these threats by india are celebrated in pakistan. i don't think they are celebrated. i don't think anybody in pakistan wants war with india because firstly, like you mentioned and reported the figures, we don't have the money to fight
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a war. we don't have money to sustain a war. we have bailey have money to, you know, more denies. are conventional military and nuclear modernization eyes, you know, india continues to modernize so right now? yes, i don't think pakistan has the kind of money rather than external dag that's reaching $127000000000.00 plus now the only hope is that pakistan g d p growth is projected to dodge 40 or high or 5 percent in the fiscal year, which ends and june 2022. but at the same time, the reality in bog as on is that there is heightened inflation. there is a balance of payment crisis, which is dependent on external that bailouts, if, if pakistan wants to stay afloat on. so from my understanding is that if pakistan re prioritizes piece, economic security puts human security at the heart of it,
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then the broader piece of the national economy by the doctor and leave use of was talking about. that's the only way by august, none can re direct its resources if it continuously lives in an environment of geopolitical geostrategic environment, which forces it, ah, you know, to have a border which is hostile on the eastern side and then also western border ridges unstable. and frederick, it will never be able to focus energy. the objectives that this enters be focuses on. sure. as for russia, in islam of other clearly the strategic balance, that's the catch all phrase that this new document uses. the strategic balance has been out of kilter. it hasn't mashed properly in so many areas, be it exports not matching, imports be it the way the country spends too much money on defense because the countries existence is being, i guess, is a function of feeling constantly under threat. how do they re balance that strategy?
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how do they spin all these plates into a state of equilibrium? the thing is, i'm and my view on this sir. this feeling of insecurity is a kind of, i believe it's an orchestrated, it's a, it's, it's not a real threat in them in the meanings afy but bug is fanny's or tor, the public historian here for the last 70 years that we are a security stayed because we are under some, once particularly india was the destroyers i am. i'm of the view that india is not in the interest of india to destroy pakistan. yes, india may want to keep focused on weaker. they want may be low intensity. the instability in pakistan would be in their interest, but whitening of pakistan are destroyed. pakistan is not in the interest of india any of the countries on pakistan, waters. so 1st of all, we need to look into,
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you know, some, we need to do some soul searching. and when we are saying this is the 1st to ever the national security policy, i would like to see that kind of, you know, critical thinking in such policies that yes, these, what are your hours? we need to review our policies. are our thinking out wayne say our strategy a my colleague phillip league here and alyssa, she is right by august on can not afford. if it was about your son cannot afford consultation. we need to reduce our defense expenses. we knew to bring in all the structural changes to our defense and security forces in this document base. they talk about cyber war. they talk about electronic while they're talk about, you know, hybrid want and they want to allocate more, you know, resources to do those new areas of defense. but at the same time, they want to keep the traditional spending. so if in this national security
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document that they would like it, we might talk about think about that using the number of personnel and now the, the in the s g. so you know why not that are? that's why i think just let me push it. sure. i just just the next couple of minutes at robbie act are in the hall when they talk about a civil military consensus. is that clever diplomatic speak for? we have spoken to the military and we have reassured them. look, it's okay because the military and pakistan never really goes away. i mean, it was the military pakistan that gave us perverse sheriff. you know, he started the job wearing a military uniform and then he did the classic thing. he flipped over to wearing a color and tie. if you're my age, i remember covering the story when the military was literally scaling the walls of the presidential palace. you're right, but military never goes away in any country. so this is vargas i was speaking, so it's exceptional in that case, given its history, ah, you know,
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when we need it is a civil military consensus on this national security policy. it just probably is your thought. so is that listen, we're talking about economic security, then this economic security is not going to gun and the cost of state or get a total security alike barrage, a sub sand are, is a, is a section in this national security policy which talks about conventional threats. and this is perhaps the last time they bark his son and his national security doc in the end has talked about 5 domains of warfare where doors are going to be fight . and in addition to lang air and see there is a domain of cyber and space added to it. bag as on is talking about increase capabilities and network center, city badges, the la van as electronic walk, everybody's and other force multiplies their pakistan will have to look at. so, so this is not only i cannot make security paradigm in which is devoid or the was
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from the state security paradigm, sheriff, for russia in islam above this, there's something almost completely unique about your country. and it's the way that the p has got to be invested in what imran con says he now wants to achieve. they have lived with for 2 or 3 generations now, both internal and external threats. that is pretty unique not only in the region but in the world so that there is a paradox there. that here we have a pakistani prime minister, setting himself up and saying, i'm the guy to deal with internal threats and external threats as well. when we talk about kashmir, when we talk about afghanistan, we talk about the afghan taliban and also the pakistani taliban as well. i think you're right when you say about the pakistan is unique by the sun is unique. because the a saw go out of more sleep,
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but it seems to people behind the closed doors, they sit down and they decide. and the thing that we have these thirds, and they then they come out in the public. and then they lecture the public that we have these threats a broad existence. but in, in, in, in, in reality, the state of pakistan never consulted the actual, the real, the true stakeholders, the owners of pakistan, the people of pakistan, even in this document. which is, you know, it is presented as one as the fust evan policy. we are the stake we have is the input of pakistani people. we're not in a position the civil society, or they just said this is, this is a civil military. you know, we talk about civil military balance, but we are a lot of the civilians. so in fact the, in the sacrament they say about national cohesion collisions means a,
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do you want to bring it by force? do you want to bring it in bose, it upon the people in the national identity and national position. it comes when you engage with people. it comes when you decentralize and evolve power in pakistan . we the have been focusing on centralizing the state and the strong center with strong military and protect pakistan. that model has a okay, we will be either on the measures to come back in your area for a 2nd please. sure, us with that idea of imposition in mind, robert or i've dug out a quote from bernezi abuto, which i think she, she said this on american television, not long before she was assassinated. people left in pakistan. they are left in pakistan with the remnants of the soviet afghan or trained militants, drug matthews, arms smuggling and religious zealots. even if she was only half right when she says that doesn't that mean that what's gone before and what may come in the future?
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because im ranken as a here today, gone to more a politician. doesn't that mean that this document they've now come up with has to be a living document? it will have to change because in a year or 2 or 10, the 3 of us could be having another conversation, robbie, or about the new prime minister, or the new president or the new military who's taken over? absolutely, peter. but before i answer this question, i like to say that the threads focused on faces pertaining to the apartment b. my share, some is not just the see thread. when the indian, our defense minister comes out and talks about changing the and a few shadows and taking over ages k by force. there is some reality do it. so it's not all in the head. it's not a ghost that's been made up by somebody coming to your question. i'm in the court that you're calling from the it is you're good or i think she was absolutely right . ah, in the past 20 years, you know, we have suffered the have lost $70000.00 plus lives and we had lost
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$78000000.00 worth of economic worth in these years. that's the price focus on has paid. when my prime minister, i'm just talking here as an individual, as a citizen, when he comes out. and he says that this policy is about securing me as an individual, as a citizen of pakistan, whether it is about securing my constitutional privileges. or is it about protecting me from all forms of extremism crime, terrorism violence, including war and gender based violence, which by the way, has made its way into this and his speech for the 1st time in the history of boxes done. then i will have hope a barrett, this is a comprehensive approach which is which had been missing previously. so this n s b is talking about the rule of law and it's be talking about responsive justice . it's talking about making it of august and it's elite, and it's really people don't take money out of the country and invested in the
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countries and banks abroad, but rather meet focused on a priority investment bank is done and make this a place we're investing in. so what's not to be hopeful about this is a c, which is from 2020 to 2026. it's only a 40 years time frame. now noisy can achieve this objective in this point in time. this is also, i would like to say, i don't see this as i'm able to go. i don't see this as b d. i want to see like dog. and we'll use a said in his opening statement that this show an outlet and the prime minister in barcas time because of his comprehensive nature. and anybody should have no objection, rather you should add more do it. there is nothing in it that you would like to take out and say no because this government presented it. we don't agree with it. ok, i hear robbie, i'm going to have to stop you there. otherwise we're going to completely run out of time. thank you both so much. they were our guests today,
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sheriffs bratia and robert actor and thank you to for watching. you can see the show again via the website alpha 0 dot com. and you can also talk to us be a facebook on facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also get more on the conversation on our twitter handle at ha, inside story from me peter toby and the team here and go off. thanks for watching. we'll see you soon. bye bye. ah. a has to choose between your site and feeding your family. what do you do? yeah, i mean that happens with because we don't do it myself healthy. when your son could
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face the death from a dog via, what do you do every year? look at the cost of it. actually, can you afford them? films about inspiring solutions to global health challenges. e. j. select on al jazeera ah award winning documentary from around the world. on al jazeera intelligence and playful authors are in high demand is packed in japan, but concerns going over the illegal smuggling and irresponsible breeding of these wild animals. 11 east investigate on all to 0 dawn with
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awe. hello, i'm adrian said again in doha with a summary of the news on al jazeera, a powerful soon army has hit the pacific nation of tongue. after an undersea volcano erupted, people on the small island nation, had to scramble to reach higher ground warnings and advisories. a still in place for parts of japan and the western united states. phil lavelle reports from los angeles. it only took minutes for the waters to arrive. tonga, main islands, hung it up, you being hit by a tsunami. the result of a massive volcanic eruption in the pacific ocean even from spain.

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