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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  January 15, 2022 8:30pm-9:01pm AST

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time now with been goal, which is hosting the largest gathering has seen its highest single day 5 since the beginning of the pandemic. now the course there are austin authorities to consider postponing upcoming civic goals because of the karone of our situation in the state . ah, hello, are you watching out a 0? i'm emily. angling. these are the top stories. this album where keeping an eye on a synonymy alert after one of the biggest undersea volcanic eruptions in decades, new toner. the warnings were issue is far away as the us west coast. we're seeing live pictures out of los angeles. now, the national tsunami warning center in the us said the west coast, which is including california, oregon, washington, alaska, and the canadian province of british columbia could face strong currents and waves . and as we heard from our correspondent rope reynolds,
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people have been edge to stay out of the water. and yet, as you can see from these pictures, people aren't necessarily following those orders and people actually surfing on these wives. so just repeating that information, that toner has witness to the biggest on the c volcanic eruption in decades. it's triggered as soon nami warning, in its largest island. and there has been warnings across the pacific and as far away as the west coast of the us. by gene has reported its those community case of the army, chrome variance, the positive cases from the cities wolf, western high d on district the countries less than 2 weeks away from staging. the winter olympics with beijing is one of the venues for the game. will revelations of u. k. government parties during lockdown are emerging. the daily mirror newspaper says weekly drinks gatherings took place on wednesday. prime minister bars johnson apologize to parliament for attending what he called a work event. at a time when socializing was banned. opposition laid a kiss, drama, again,
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he towns at johnston's government. rather than concentrating on getting through the pandemic and bring it down, waiting lists. this self indulgent tory party is having a fight about the leader who they should know from the start is not fit for office . we were witnessing every day, the broken spectacle of a prime minister minded to seek to deception and unable to lead. but was the tourist pick up and fight each other or what's up? i want to look to the future. novak joke of it. she's back in immigration detention after his visa was cancelled for a 2nd time. the tenant star will appeal the decision and hearing on sunday a day before the is drowning open begins. those are the head times. i'm emily angland news continues here on al jazeera. after inside story. news,
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news, news, news pack. his son is ready to make peace with his neighbors, including india, the prime minister in moran columns that economic diplomacy will not be at the hearts of foreign affairs. it's all part of the country's new national security policy, but will it work? this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm pete, adobe. pakistan's prime minister has launched the country's 1st ever national security policy. it seems to shift the focus away from the military to what you
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might call a citizen centric framework. and it aims to have economic security as its core. m ranken says pakistan has been in dire need of a strategy that ensures the protection of its people and guards economic interests . opposition parties have criticize the government for not taking the input into account. when formulating the policy will begin our main discussion in a moment. first, let's take a closer look at the economic challenges that lie ahead. pakistan has top the list of 10 countries with the highest external debt. rising unemployment and poverty. and the pandemic has exacerbated that pushing the nation's poverty levels to nearly 40 percent. the government is struggling with inflation. in october, the pakistani repeat dropped to a record low against the us dollar. the country has also been facing skyrocketing prices of essential commodities, oil, gas, and wheat. and pakistan is also grappling with the economic fall out from the volatility across the border in afghanistan,
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after the taliban took over the last year. the 1st, joining us from the whole is more yourself national security advisor to him, right count the pakistani prime minister most use of welcome to inside story, looking at the non redacted 50 page published version. the abridged version of this new policy, big on large, sweeping ideas, very, very short on detail. how do you make it work? thank your 1st of all, can, let's understand that that would be ideal, is or reaping ideas. as you call them. you're not going to have the direction, we've had multiple, multiple policies, like any other country, but we were missing an umbrella which store us, which told our citizens unrestored, the one just on the statement of intent for itself. that's what the, the bridge version that you have tells you. it tells you that this is
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a country that wants to move, to have beach in the region. a country that focused on economic security on g o economics. in dunden with your strategy, looking at one of the ships looking at using its location of the crossroads of south asia, central asia, west asia for connectivity. that's the future where pockets on want to go. now when you talk about what you want to do to get there, there's a whole menu of things specific things that, of course, are not going to be in the public document which will be worked on onset lines to take the direction that we've laid out. but this is not a policy that says that we got to do one part of national security ahead of the other issue for pakistan is our national resource by is not large enough to get to adequately to our people. we are the 5th largest country, the 220000000 people. so that resource by have to increase to better performance,
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to better export forum, direct investment commitment and you've got to work out that extend by the spot and then we can redistribute much more to why he wouldn't benefit and to traditional and military security. so this is, this is going forward if time shift not moving from one year to another, but getting everything in line so that everybody gets all, all the missing for a 2nd please. so why not? if it's a paradigm shift, why do it only in english? because both documents are composed, written in english. why not do enter do the language of your country because the stakeholders and all this, just let me finish the stakeholders and all this are the people of pakistan and why keep so much of it secret? just publish the whole thing so everyone can get involved in this conversation. so 1st of all, are you absolutely right? and the, some of the document is already been translated into, into although,
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and the larger document is all to lean trusted and will be out because that's exactly what we want. we want it to be in the country with one intellectual input we, we want critique. so that is happening as far as why not lay out everything, no country does it or a strategy, he's at a po mother document of this nature of course because they can be interpreted and misinterpreted. and then it's national security policy. the, there are certain things that actually are never mean modeling, but we haven't put out a summary of new bid is be put out of 5060 page document which lays out very clearly the direction of where pakistan is going. and each sentence in each section, if you read it, you will know that if you what policy actions are. busy beneath those backs exactly how policies are implemented. ok, that part of was is, will remain, classify your short published at the moment version talks about a civil slash military consensus. so you, you want to, you want to get people to hang on to that word. there's, there's a broad consensus here, i guess. but the consensus didn't include the opposition politicians in the
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parliament in islamabad. this sounds like a route and branch. reinvention of the country post. that's called it. what it is post partition going back to 1947. this is like him, ranken is saying. i want to take the country to its next iteration. its next version, what the country will become in a generation or 2 generations. how can you say you've got a consensus if the opposition politicians are not involved in this? that don't make any sense. first of all, policy making involves not only the government, not only civil military provinces, it is a federal structure in terms of governance. not all problems is the word by the ruling party in the center. in addition, the parliament has a committee on national security where such as this policy was taken there, we made a presentation and everybody was that gave input, so it has not connect. i think bad information is wrong. other than that politics is politics. i don't belong to that was the opposite. she was here. what it says,
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this is a document that know about just, i mean government i can get into you when you go back on the other. not too big elephant in the room that the document that i've read today seems discussed around . it's the taliban having taken over afghanistan. your country shares a border, quite a porous border in some areas of 2640 kilometers between pakistan, afghanistan. and that's elephant number one, elephant number 2 is kashmir. and until you resolve or work with those 2 big issues and get them both moving in the right direction. this idea of reinventing the country direction of travel is a non starter until you work through those issues. not sketch around them. well, i'm not sure i've restarted them on a, on the elephant in the room is not the fun coming in or not the elephant in the room if you want to call it that is lack of stability enough and stuff. and that's
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why it's very clearly stated that even in the public, a document but at all costs buckets on needs and wants an upfront a stable. that's why things. yeah. but also in the public came in, we've been going around to everybody in the world and saying, make sure we're right in the systems to average that the country doesn't collapse because it will collapse this time to get to refugees. that there is a problem. we don't get connected with the need for i cannot grow to central asia cetera. so there's no getting around that. we need that and we will work for that and do whatever we get. and we will do that, i think might be coming about that it is concerned, i think it's laid out fairly clearly. unfortunately it takes 2 to tango and in that case, are you still flying right now? is exhibiting a behavior in terms of an indian government bad. i don't need to say much. all of the western press release and press is covering it every day. the way that
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approaching this extremist hindered by what they're doing with minorities did believe that nobody else in the region possibly has the right to exist. they picked up a fight with china. the emissions with everybody is jaundiced right now it does be that the entire region has gone bonkers. the problem is that you've got a fascist in india. unfortunately, the world's largest size because the thing is going to become a counter with, you know, whatever. but it is the only count that is countries. megan underwood said it's very unfortunate. it's the largest country in south asia, but i see very, very bad times coming ahead for india now didn't. that is the case. there is no logic that can be applied. i mean it's, it's not to be, it's ology. if you see, if i'm going to put you there and say thank you very much, but we have nobody from the indian government directly to receive on to what you've just said. thank you so much for joining us. for a lot more use if there are an advisor to a pakistani prime minister emron. com. okay,
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let's go to our guests. joining us from islamabad, cheryl as parisha defense and strategy analyst, and in law, we have robert actor, the director for security strategy and policy research. at the university of la hor to both of you a warm welcome to inside story. at sher as coming to 1st you were listening there to my conversation with mr. yusef in law. on the one hand, it's touchy feely international diplomacy, but he wrapped up the conversation by describing the indian government as a fascist state. yes, this is a indeed it problem with pakistan serve, you know, the relationship, it's perception of india. and then pakistani, you know, the many of them in pakistan, establishment military people in politics, they proudly say we are india centric and in their bay. enmity with india is celebrated in pakistan and it's happening for the last 70 years since 1948. we are stuck in
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a situation with this mindset that india is seen as an enemy and we want to wipe up india from the world map and india lars, to why above are described pakistan. unless this mindset, this narrative changes. i don't think in real meaningful change will occur in this policy, which they are, you know, spinning and saying, and promoting as the post about national policy. it could have been a, you know, meaningful, real meaningful if pakistan would say that india is other ragwall in a very, you know, in a healthy way level could be, you know, in economics, in trade, in different nocka, not an enemy which we aim to destroy. and the enemy wants to destroyers. so this is a problem. robert in law, these broad brush strokes of intent. sound fantastic. they look really good on
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paper. the reality is it's gonna cost and cost. a lot of money. pakistan already has record levels of external borrowing. where does the money or the economy come from to generate the cash to pay for all this? do just do i, you know, contextualize this. i do foresee this national security policy as a paradigm shared because it was me as a citizen of pakistan, an individual at the heart of it. but while it does that, it does not take anything away from the traditional threads that are facing pakistan. and india is one of them. as my fellow panelists said that these threats by india are celebrated in pakistan. i don't think they are celebrated. i don't think anybody in pakistan wants war with india because firstly, like you mentioned and reported the figures, we don't have the money to fight
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a war. we don't have money to sustain a war. we have bailey have money to, you know, modernize our conventional military and nuclear modernization eyes, you know, india continues to modernize so right now yes, i don't think pakistan has the kind of money rather than external dag that's reaching $127000000000.00 plus the only hope is that boxes g, d, p growth is projected to dodge 40 or high or 5 percent in the fiscal year, which ends and june 2022. but at the same time, the reality in bog as on is that there is heightened inflation. there is a balance of payment crisis, which is dependent on external debt. bailouts, if, if pakistan wants to stay afloat on. so from my understanding is that if pakistan re prioritizes piece, economic security puts human security at the heart of it,
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then the broader piece of the national economy by the doctor and leave use of was talking about. that's the only way by august, none can re direct its resources if it continuously lives in an environment of geopolitical use, strategic environment, which forces it, ah, you know, to have a border which is hostile on the eastern side and then also a west and border ridge is unstable and frederick, it will never be able to focus energy is the objectives that this enters be focuses on. sure. as for russia, in islam of other clearly the strategic balance, that's the catch all phrase that this new document uses. the strategic balance has been out of kilter. it hasn't mashed properly in so many areas, be it exports not matching, imports be it the way the country spends too much money on defense because the countries existence is being, i guess, is a function of feeling constantly under threat. how do they re balance that strategy?
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how do they spin all these plates into a state of equilibrium? the thing is, i'm and my view this sir, this feeling of insecurity is a kind of, i believe it's an orchestrated, it's a, it's, it's not a real threat in them in the meanings of it, but bug is fanny's are tor, the public historian here for the last 70 years that we are a security stayed because we are under some wants particularly india wants to destroyers. i am. i am of the view that india is not in the interest of india to destroy pakistan. yes, india may want to keep focused on weaker. they want may be low intensity, the instability in pakistan would be in their interest, but waving of pakistan are destroyed, pakistan is not in the interest of india, any of the countries unbiased on the waters. so 1st of all, we need to look into,
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you know, some, we need to do some soul searching. and when we are saying this is the 1st to ever the national security policy, i would like to see that kind of, you know, critical thinking in such policies that yes, these, what are your hours? we need to review our policies. are our thinking out wayne say our strategy a my colleague phillip league here analysis. she is right by august on can not afford. if it was about your son can not afford consultation. we need to reduce our defense expenses. we knew to bring, you know, there is structural changes to our defense and security forces in this document based that they talk about cyber want. they talk about electronic, what they are talk about, you know, hybrid wad. and they want to allocate more, you know, resources to do those new areas of defense. but at the same time, they want to keep the traditional spending. so if in this national security
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document, the they, they would like it be, be made, are talk about, think about that using the number of personnel. and now the, the, in the, in s g, a saw, you know, why not that on a. so that's why i think it just let me push it. is that sure or just just the next couple of minutes at ruby act are in the hall when they talk about a civil military consensus. is that clever diplomatic speak for? we have spoken to the military and we have reassured them, look, it's ok because the military in pakistan never really goes away. i mean, it was the military in pakistan that gave us perverse sheriff. you know, he started a job wearing a military uniform and then he did the classic thing he flipped over to wearing colorant. i if you're my age, i remember covering the story when the military was literally scaling the walls of the presidential palace, your age, but military never goes away in any country. so this is vargas i was speaking. so it's exceptional. in that case, even it's history. ah, you know,
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in it's near there is a civil military consensus on this national security policy. it just probably is your thought. so there's that, listen, we're talking about economic security when this economic security is not going to gun and the boss of state already tauriel security. her like imperative sub sand are there is a, is a section in this national security policy which talks about conventional threats. and this is perhaps the mustang that vargas on its national security docking then, has dogged about 5 domains of warfare. their doors are going to be fight. and in addition to land air and see there is either no man or cyber and space added to it . ah, bogus on is talking about increase capabilities and networks center city badger, the la van is electronic graphic. everybody's and other force multiplies that pakistan will have to look at. so, so this is not only i think an army security paradigm. this is devoid or the was
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from the state security, baron sheriff, for russia in islamabad, this, there's something almost completely unique about your country. and it's the way that the people have got to be invested in. what im ranken says he now wants to achieve. they have lived with the 2 or 3 generations now, both internal and external threats. that is pretty unique not only in the region but in the world so that there is a paradox there. that here here we have a pakistani prime minister setting himself up and saying, i'm the guy to deal with internal threats and external threats as well. when we talk about kashmir, when we talk about afghanistan, we talk about the afghan taliban and also the pakistani taliban as well. i think you're right when you say about the pakistan is unique by the sun, if you need it because the a so go odd or more sleep. but it seems to people behind the closed doors,
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they sit down and they decide. and the thing that we have these thirds, and they then they come out and in the public and then the lecture of the public that we have these threats a lot existence. but in, in, in, in, in reality, the state of pakistan never consulted the actual, the real, the true state corners, the owners of pakistan, the people of pakistan, even in this document, which is, you know, it is presented as well as the fust evan policy. we are the stake we have is the input of pakistani people we're, you know, opposition, the civil society. and they just said this is, this is a civil military. you know, we talk about civil military balance, but we are a lot of the civilians. so in fact, the, in the sacrament they say about national cohesion conditions means a,
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do you want to bring it by force? do you want to bring it to impose it upon the people in the national identity and national position? it comes when you engage with people. it comes when you decentralize and evolve power in pakistan. we the have been focusing on centralizing the state and the is strong center. the strong military can protect pakistan. that model has been okay. we will be either on the measure to come back in your area for a 2nd please. sure. us with that idea of imposition in mind, robert, i've dug out a quote from tennessee abuto, which i think she, she said this on american television, not long before she was assassinated. people left in pakistan. they are left in pakistan with the remnants of the soviet afghan or trained militants, drug matthews, arms smuggling and religious zealots. even if she was only half right when she says that doesn't that mean that what's gone before and what may come in the future?
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because im ranken as a here today, gone to more a politician. doesn't that mean that this document they've now come up with has to be a living document? it will have to change because in a year or 2 or 10, the 3 of us could be having another conversation, robbie, or about the new prime minister, or the new president or the new military who's taken over? absolutely, peter. but before i answer this question, i like to say that the threads focused on faces pertaining to the apartment b. my share, some is not just of the see thread when the indian defense minister comes out and you know, talks about changing the in a few shadows and taking over ages k by force. there is some reality to it. so it's not all in the head. it's not a ghost that's been made up by somebody coming to your question. i'm in the court that you're calling from the it is you're good or i think she was absolutely right . ah, in the past 20 years, you know, we have suffered the have lost $70000.00 plus lives and we have lost
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$78000000.00 worth of economic worth in these years. that's the price pakistan has paid. when my prime minister, i'm just talking here as an individual, as a citizen, when he comes out. and he says that this policy is about securing me as an individual, as a citizen of august on whether it is about securing my constitutional privileges. or is it about protecting me from all forms of extremism crime, terrorism violence, including war and gender based violence, which by the way, has made its way into this and his speech for the 1st time in the history of boston . then i will have hope a barrett, this is a comprehensive approach which is which had been missing previously. so this n s b is talking about the rule of law and it's be talking about responsive justice . it's talking about making it up august. it's elite and it's really people don't take money out of the country and invested in countries in banks abroad. but rather
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me focused on a priority investment bank is done and make this a place we're investing in. so what's not to be hopeful about this is our policy, which is from 2020 to 2026. it's only a 40 years time frame. now noisy can achieve this objective in this point in time. if this is also, i would like to say, i don't see this as i'm able to go. i don't see this as b d. i want to see like dog. and we'll use a said in his opening statement that this show an outlet and the prime minister in barcas time because of his comprehensive nature. and anybody should have no objection, rather you should add more do it. there is nothing in it that you would like to take out and say no because this government presented me don't agree with it. ok, i hear rabbit. i'm going to have to stop you there. otherwise we're going to completely run out of time. thank you both. so much they were our guests today,
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sheriffs bratia and robbie actor and thank you to for watching. you can see the show again to the website alpha 0 dot com. and you can also talk to a see a facebook on facebook dot com, forward slash ha insights story. you can also get more on the conversation on our twitter handle at ha, inside story from me peter toby and the team here and go off. thanks for watching. we'll see you soon. bye bye. ah and some people marry for love of is it can be a commercial transaction. i mean, we're a 3700 euro payment just for the march condron out there. weld meets men and women
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