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tv   [untitled]    December 10, 2021 10:30pm-11:01pm AST

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sure, and then be to turn toward the spectre places of look, you're all brothers and everyone should be allowed to follow their religion. there should be harmony. i'll go to gal was in the state of hardy anna, what is governed by the hindu nationalists about the agenda party and the number of public spaces where muslims now have permission to pray has been reduced to just 20 . we have been trying to talk to people here today about what they're doing and why they're here. they have been coming here every week for the past 2 months, but today they say that they're only here to pay their final respects to an indian chief of defense staff and the other military officials who died in a helicopter crash on wednesday with no explanation as to why they chose the spot for doing so. ah, quite look at the main stories now that we can lease found julian sanchez lost his latest bid to stop extradition from britain to stand trial in the u. s. u. s one.
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it's appeal at the high court in london, judges over turning in earlier ruling the assign to would be a suicide risk if he lost sanctuary in person. he faces up to 175 years in jail if convicted today. it's been almost a year since i stood outside court with our victory of the blocking of the extradition for the past year. and the past year, 2 years and a half julia has remained in bell march prison. and in fact, he has been detained since the 7th of december, 2010 in one form or another 11 years for how long can this go on for testers and me and marveled a silent strike against military rule in the ousting of the democratically elected government. businesses were closed and streets and markets deserted across the country on friday. the admire was plunged into crisis in february when the military
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overthrew leader unsung sushi and her government. a qu, triggered daily protest and violence between the military and ethnic minority groups. an overcrowded truck is crushed in southern mexico, killing at least 55 people. they will migrants heading to the united states. dozens, norwin injured police suspect that the truck overturned and hit a steel bridge because it was so packed with people. the european union has worn russia to scale back its military build up on the border with ukraine threatening more sanctions of troops invade european commission president. i see live on the line, made the comments during a joint news conference with germany and chancellor le shelves. and 2 journalists have been awarded the nobel peace prize and ceremony in august. maria reza, of the philippines and the russian. jennifer michie, motel with joint receiving the prize that effort to safeguard freedom of expression . those are the headlines this our upfront is next.
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ah, it every year in estimated 500000 people from central america attempt a dangerous journey crossing mexico to make it to the united states southern border . these migrants are often traffic extorted by criminal gangs and even kidnapped along the way. we'll look at what makes people sit out on such a perilous journey in the 1st place. but 1st, holland has deployed thousands of troops on its water with bella roost to keep out migrants were now stuck between both countries. 15 migrants have died at the border, and thousands of others have set up camps and below freezing temperatures. many are starving and in desperate need of humanitarian assistance. joining us to discuss
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the situation at the border. this week's headliner, marching, potato holdings, deputy minister of foreign affairs marching credits. thank you so much for joining us on up front and good afternoon. hello. thank you for having me right now. there are thousands of asylum seekers living in camps at the border between poland and bella rose. poland has said that they will not allow them to come into the country. and border guards have been accused of forcing migrants who make it through, back to the bellows. the inside of the border. you deny pushing back margaret? so what are you doing? we are protecting the border of the european union. of course. those migrants who are invited by the lucas encourage him to come to by the route. they do have an option of course to cross the border to do that through the crossing points with the legal documents, without the visa or without any emission to get to the european union. it shouldn't
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be they shouldn't be allowed to cross illegally. they do submit border, so those tool really wants to go to the you. what they need to do is to get the document that get the visa or if there are seekers to apply and the special net procedure to meant to get that. so they're, they're all legal way to get to that, that you, these people are coming to the border. they are asylum seekers and they are literally being turned back. they are being denied access to pay even to the proper paperwork for asylum seeking according to reports on the ground. how is this not a contravention of international law? well, maybe 1st, we need to understand the nature of this. the old peroration, bella, russian. both of those migrants were invited by the center received by by, by the leader of the russian state. the fact though invited those people
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promising them that they will be smuggled to the european union and using them as the instrument and his political operation against the u. e, with sanction mr. lucas center, does not acknowledge him as the leader of the, of the country. so this is a kind of revenge where the people are fully instrumental life and use of the somehow bones or bullets in the hybrid operation. so we should not accept the fact that there are some good black mailing us with that kind of situation. but we want to help of course, those who are already in this diary situation. that's why we try to send several human dive in convoys. we try to get in the engage the international organizations in order to help them iowa you say that you're trying to help people right now at least 15 people have died. 8 many people say that they've come to the border and been turned away. for example,
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a 35 year old man from the democratic republic of congo travel with his wife and 3 children. all of them were under 7 years old. and he said that his friend was pushed back twice my polish border guards the 2nd time he pleaded for asylum. and they wouldn't listen. he said they told him there's no asylum. there's nothing. go back where you came from. it's hard to hear those type of stories. how do you respond? i do respond in such a manner, accepting dose, those thousands or hundreds of people. unfortunately, we could encourage older to be in this difficult situation because it is a way of doing money for us and causewell encourage and inviting people, then to encourage them to grow, to cross the legal, you double the border without securing protecting the boat. it would be even more thousands or, or tens of thousands of possible possible migraines. but we cannot, we cannot accept all the people who just want to cross the border with an excuse us
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as i live speakers, because in, in the vast majority, unfortunately, those are, those people are not as island secrets, just regular migrants who was great to go to control what basis do you say that they're not really asylum seekers? because the vast majority of those who are already crow successfully devoted, refused to fill any documents planning that they want to get to germany to get them in other countries. germany or, or the netherlands, not in poland, poland for them, it just, it turns the country, according to the international law, the 1st country, the 1st safe country, should be the place where they apply for a dialogue. and in this case, basically, it should be bellows because bella routes for them. is the country where, where, where they decide to go, you mention international law, which is, which is interesting because the 1951 convention on that as a refugee says that the contracting states,
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those who are signatories to this. 1 shall not expel a refugee lawfully in their territory stable ground, the national security a public order. the expulsion of such a refugee shall be only in pursuance of indecision reach, in accordance with due process of law. what's happening at the border is not due process of law. these people are being pushed away without due process. they're not being taken to an asylum process and often things not even access to paperwork to engage in the process. so even if you're correct that these people ultimately don't want of asylum in poland, who are we to know without going through the process? this is clearly against international law. what, how do you, how do you reconcile your position with poland, commitment to honoring international law, extensively. 30. first, this going to gone. benson was signing 951. i think that's the nominal of a weapon. edition of migration is relatively new, and this is the case which was not foreseen and said that convention. but 1st thing, the 2nd argument is of course the, the boost parts are not allowed when they're,
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when, when you are pushing back someone to the territory. and then she or his playing problem, i mean, and then those people are by their decision going to nobody force them to get on boards to go to mental battle for them. i can imagine. and then it's not that then jewish country, of course, by the rest of the regime is very dangerous for the bell or some opposition or the political activists. but not for those people. it's up to them what they want to decide to go to this country or not. the european court of human rights in july of this year said that poland acted illegally when it pushed 3 fairy and nationals back to bella, roost in 2017. the risk of being returned to their home countries from better routed high found the court, and therefore poland should have taken that into account before refusing entry to these people. so the question here is whether or not the,
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the polish government has the right to return. people, if they have a chance of being returned to a home country, there are people at the border who are making a decision to turn people away and say no, a silo. despite the fact that these people are crying for a certain, there are people literally holding up science and i want asylum in poland. how can we turn them away? and they can, they can always go to the polish embassy or to be any older embassy and apply for them. the fact that they let themselves to be treated in such a way. bye bye, bye bye. look. i think that that's not really how to solve this situation. we have our bilateral or what are going to flaming? what are the victim? you're literally saying that asylum seekers in refugees and persecuted minorities are allowing themselves to be treated that way by the bill of russian government. let's say you're right though. let's say that they're making the wrong decision that they should be at the iraqi or the theory and embassy in bella was, let's say you're right. they're not though they're going across the border. an international law says that you have a right duty rather to take them in and to put them through an asylum sticking
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process. again, it's, it's, it's not clear to me how you're reconciling your commitment to following the law with your practices on the ground. we are, i've already told you that what we are facing right now is the hybrid operation of bella, russian regime, where people are in human lives. and if you thought the other weapon against the sovereign country, against the sovereign border of the european union of the political answer to that decision of the european union. so what we, what we need to do 1st is to protect those people from taking the decision to go through the pro, from iraq to a to battle ropes. but those who are already in route, they should be treated in the, in a proper manner. if they want to apply for as an island, also embassy to a detector of ballard route. they don't have to go to the border or even to the
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crossing point and then they can apply to get that special special document. since joining the you in 2004 migration from poland to other countries has been very high now. very sadly, that's been coupled with an increase in anti polish immigrant sentiment. except when you k, laminated cars were left outside of primary schools with the words, no more polish vermin. but the leader of your ruling party euros law, because in sky said a few years ago during a campaign rally that migrate from the middle east, were bringing cholera that they were bringing dysentery to europe. that they were risking the spread of various parasites. that's a quote, but don't you find it a little ironic that you seem to be repeating. the very same hostile language has been weaponized against your own people. well, those who i mean great is from poland. once we joined the you that they've done it
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legally by you know, there is a freedom of movement around the you also, so i mean, i mean great it to the us and they have to do that. they need to get the visa. let us just for clarity think, let's assume they're all illegal. so are you saying that it's okay if they're illegal to use the humanizing language to call them berman thing isn't there? i wouldn't, i would, i wouldn't use that. that's kind of my language, but you've asked me about the both living at bros, i'm just, i'm just asking, i'm just answering that those people they've met legally and we also accept a question. my question was about the language. no, no. so my question, my question was about the language being used against them and the fact that the very same dehumanizing language use against polish people i think are being used here. and you're saying you wouldn't use that language, but you are slow kazinsky to do you disagree? you can do me years low cuz it's confusing that language. my answer would be that
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we accepted a lot of migrants from all over the country in the recent years to 1000000 of ukrainian hundreds of thousands of russian citizens. also from the older countries, middle east countries, central asia, africa, and you can come to worst and see how many foreigners working and living. and so we are very much open to the fortunate unfortunately. but only through the legal, i understand mark, my question was about the dehumanizing language against them, but you haven't answered that and i'll have to, i'll have to ended there unless you're willing and should know that humanize. and i wouldn't say that's the quote you used to in reality, i mean the prime minister countries, you want it to the human if you want, maybe want to, to draw attention to special risk with regard to that. it was already a couple of years ago, as i said, since that there are many migrants from all over the world who came to poland
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legally. and we are happy to cooperate with. ready with them at the land. all right, so thank you so much for joining me on upfront the in the last 7 years, more than 2000000 people are estimated to f lead el salvador, what am i la, and honduras risking their lives. they journey through mexico and hate for the united states southern border. last week, the u. s. reinstated the trump era remain in mexico policy, which forces asylum seekers to wait outside of the u. s. while they are asylum claims, a process, a move human rights defenders have said will impact their safety and their due process, right? but what is causing people to take on this dangerous journey in the 1st place? and what's being done to address the root causes of this migration. joining us to discuss this are laura carlson direct of the americas program. she joins us from mexico city and marco castillo, co executive director of the international human rights organization, global exchange. he joins us from. you are. thank you both for joining me. mark.
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i'm going to start with you. you work with migrants in mexico. you're from mexico. can you talk to a little bit about the journey that migrants go through to get to the us mexico border? sure, so what we're seeing right now, it's migrant families actually from the countries from, from the hearts conditions and bark in a life threatening journey where immigration policies for them to take high risk droughts controlled by organized crime, or corrupt police and immigration officers. that many times threaten or commit, kidnapping deeper to illegal the potations. and sadly, many times that journey from laura marco is describing a very dangerous and troublesome journey that people are taking on what are some other factors we should be thinking about whether happen a lot of changes. we have to keep in mind that migration is normal, it's a part of life. it's a part of human history. but what we've seen are
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a lot of changes. we've seen, of course, an increase. we've seen the increase in apprehensions at the us border. we've seen an increase in central americans coming through mexico and we've seen these real, these very notable changes, which is the change from being young been basically looking for work or escaping violence to entire families. what this shows us is the collapse of central american countries that has a lot to do with the history of us policy and other forms of intervention in their own. countries that have created a political, economic, and social collapse in which people are being displaced from their homes. they're being forced out by violence and death threats. literally. they've watched other family members be killed. they're told that they have to get out of their own homes in 24 hours. this is how dire the situation is that would actually cause people to
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take on such a perilous journey. they're arriving in mexico in terrible shape. so it's a population that's been abandoned by public policy in all of the countries, and that has had the face conditions that no human have family should have to face marco. we now see the re implementation of the remain in mexico policy. how will that affect the conditions that you and laura been describing? of course, since implementation of of the m p. p in formerly known as remain in mexico, migrants have been forced to wade in mexico for the us and being i've had them cases. and while the way they base terrible conditions at the mexican side of the border, and just to give you a number from approximately 68000 participants of the original m, p b, just 723 were granted asylum, or some kind of immigration relief so what i'm,
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what i'm saying here is that this is a policy that more than anything tries to, but turn the poured and just giving oppertunity for very few individuals to be very cases heard and accepted in the us. and so we're talking about thousands of people who remain in mexico, thousands of people being reported. and all this process is life threatening and obviously full of human rights violations law the a c. o. you said that the resumption of the remain in mexico policy would lead to court heretic abuse, including torture, rape, and death. are the stakes really that high? we've already seen it marco's interviewed people on the border in when it was implemented during the trump administration. i've been up there and talked to people in the 19, but the motor instead of what is we know this happens. there's over 600 documented cases, the people who came back who were assaulted or raped in mexico. there are people
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who have gone back to their home countries and been assassinated because that's why they left in the 1st place. they knew they were going to be assassinated and nobody seems to want to take responsibility for what happens to those people. mexico never had to set that, that program, it's a violation of sovereignty because they're sending people who have legal processes in the united states, back to mexico, which mexico has no responsibility whatsoever to accept these people. you know, they're shuttling them all over the country with no real plan of what they can do to have a livelihood, to survive, to have a future. because these policies are completely shutting map. marco, the majority of asylum seekers crossing the u. s. southern border coming from honduras, and salvador, guatemala. you were just in honduras, in fact, what's your take on why people risk their lives to make this incredibly dangerous journey from to the us. from places like han doors,
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nobody migrates because they want to be good. you know, for pleasure, i mean central american countries like what the lines have on our plan with you, which comes with organized crime, with corruption and not only god but what their minor child rather or are for example, among the 15 countries in the world, most exposed to the pastors in november 2020 in what the modern on do we have had that i we're we're among the countries to be most severely impacted by the hurricanes it that new york that in what am i alone at 40 percent of assistance subsistence agriculture was affected in 80 percent of basic samples, like mays or beans were devastated. so these are countries that are under, under the terrible food insecurity and already high for years before. so my gosh, are fleeing, you know, like almost circumstances that are impossible to bear,
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like people cannot survive in their own countries. and that's why people embark in this, you know, almost impossible journey. laura, earlier this year, the by that ministration proposed a strategy to address the root causes of migration from guatemala, han doors and el salvador that included $4000000000.00 in aid. u. s. a. to these countries. is this any different from the programs we've heard in the past in the past? that's exactly the central point of follow up on what marco is saying, because unfortunately, it's not. and nobody like joe biden should know better than the fact that those kinds of proposals have failed in the past. because he was in charge of this really in charge of central american development and stabilization during the obama administration. and what he did is impose the war on drugs model of us put in the armed forces in the streets for public security tasks. impose kind of the ican nomic model based on for an embed cement and the construction of these big
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mega projects that actually displace indigenous especially indigenous and rural communities. and these are the be in the people who migrate. and so to have a new 4 year for $1000000000.00 program, that repeats those in the same errors is somewhat inconceivable. marco, how does security factor into dealing with the root causes of migration? the u. s. has spent $3300000000.00 since 2007, assisting security forces with fighting criminal organizations and drug cartels in mexico, under what's known as the miti, the initiative. but since that time, 150000 people have been killed due to organized criminal violence. the big number more when you factor in disappearances in depth of migrants. where's the money actually going? well, these programs recommended initiative and other similar programs has shined with with mexican and central america are proving to fail because minutes arising
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country where there is no justice or access to justice or, or the rule of law it's, it's just creating much more inadequate conditions for the grow of violence and so what we need to see, it's an agreement that not only includes graphic investment, but a true commitment from the us to control the flow of us punch. we need the us more invested in respecting the people's will when it comes to democratic elections. and when it comes to, you know, freedoms and rights for self determination. so there is no investment in, you know, in the economy or insecurity that it's going to be for the whole b, as long as the u. s. is not supporting and respecting what communities, what families and communities are watching are the fighting for their own future. and as long as us guns continue to hello and and traffic get into their countries,
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marco, we've seen restrictive us border policies for decades, but president on today's manuel lopez open door, also known as ammo. promise. he would not be doing what he called the u. s. is dirty work when it comes to addressing migration m no ran on a progressive platform, specifically thing, he would transform mexico by routing out corruption, welcoming migrants and moving away from a neo liberal economic model. did you expect that this pivot would look the way it did that he'd respond to migration the way that he as well. not, not at all. i mean, in the beginning it was, it was sold to the mexican population that we, mexico had to accept the n p. p protocols because, you know, we were on the threat of economic sanctions. but, but after that, the mexican government has use this anti constitutional. any legal program acts and to use migrants as
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a bargaining chips to advance better economic agreement. and so these kind of negotiations represent, not only will, it's an extension of the trauma, narrative and strengthening of the trumps anti america narrative to mexico and central america. but in hundreds of thousands of larger risk that is not progressive at all lower in your estimation. what could alleviate some of the hardships that migrants are facing in terms of the politics of it? the policies, specifically the, the m p. p, the my, the migration protection protocols are ironically named by trump must be eliminated in so logical and it's cruel. title $42.00 in the united states, which is blocking migrants from even going into request asylum on a trip on a health basis that has been disproven by health officials must be eliminated as well. there must be human asylum processes in both countries that are
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efficient that don't create these gigantic backlogs, leaving people with no options for survival and often forcing them to return to countries that are dangerous. there must be educational programs in both countries that begin to tell people migrants are good for the economy. migration is not a threat. we're not talking about criminals. we are talking about families. so all these problems are, are very poor problems, but they're not fixable. they're actually relatively easy with a reorientation of public policy. laura marco, thank you so much for joining me up front and thank you for the conversation. thank you. right. that is our show upfront. we'll be back next to the ah
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and oh, there's a lot more al jazeera than tv with our website mobile app, social media, and podcast. alta 0 digital is a world award winning online content. and each week on portal will bring you the very best of it. they're trying to broaden the people to leave it to go somewhere else. but the truth is that it got nowhere else to go. so if you missed it online, catch up here with me sound or gotten on al jazeera, we know what's happening in our region. we know how to get to plate that others and not as far as i said, i'm going on the way that you tell the story is what can make a difference. once upon a time, the family fled from and so silent in snowy lag. the sisters who so scared
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and thinks and back that they disappeared within themselves. ah, the little boy had a different time to escape to mos shit. make scrap. how will that story and witness wake up a mom out there? ah hello, i'm marianne timothy and london. i'll main story now. founder of the whistle blow up site wiki leaks has moved a step closer to facing criminal charges in the u. s. for one of the biggest ever leaks of classified information. julian saunders facing extradition from the u. k. off to losing an appeal in faces up to 175 years in jail if found guilty of leaking u. s. military secrets and in bob reports now from the high court in london.
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oh, for supporters of julian, a serge, it's a worry moments. 2 judges at the high school to london.


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