tv [untitled] November 12, 2021 2:30pm-3:01pm AST
and dissident artist i way way, but other work by him considered too controversial will not be displayed. why you are happily museum, which cannot or in cape or to give fats its own integrity. awe about her freedom of speech, land dad, her research question. as the museum opens to the public for the 1st time, the sometimes baffling world of modern art will not only prompt the question is he taught, but in hong kong case, is it legal? rob mcbride, al jazeera. ah, peter, over here and are you watching al jazeera, you're headlines, refugees, and migrants of describe being beaten and robbed at the bell. russian border with poland before being ordered to cross over. about 2000 people are living in dire freezing conditions as governments trade accusations,
and threats about the crisis. activists providing humanitarian aid and support to the migrants along the board. i want the coding government to give n g o is full access to the area that is to be submitted to us to what's available for those. this is a very stressful situation for us. not only because there are so much media attention on this issue, but also because we are grassroots activists not professionals from the humanitarian organizations that should be here delivering humanitarian medical and legal assistance to the people trapped in the woods. we have been responding to a situation to save lives where the government has restricted access to humanitarian organization and to deliver aid in the restricted area. nevertheless, since mid october, we've been approached by over 3000 people that we travel. and since the beginning of november, we've been asked by at least 900 people of undertaken 131 humanitarian intervention to help those stranded polish government needs to allow humanitarian organizations to access restricted zones. the national airline of fellers says it will no longer
allow citizens of iraq, syria, and yemen to board its flights from turkey. the happy accusations that bela roost has been flying in migrants from the world trouble spots to enable them to enter the european union. there's been an explosion at a mosque enough. galveston, manga province, local sources, a saying 15 people have been injured. no group has claimed responsibility that have been several attacks on mostly sheer mosques since the taliban took in august. most of them have been claimed by iso sedans, military leader has appointed a new ruling counsel and puts himself in charge 2 weeks after he seized power. be 14 member body, excludes main opposition figures and has been condemned by the us. those are your headlines up next. it's inside story during keeps you company of the coming hours. i will see you very soon. ah.
a u. s. delegation visits taiwan a week after a tour of you politicians triggered fury in china. once behind the increasing interest from the west, and how far will they go to defend the island? this is inside story. with hello and welcome to the show. i'm sammy's a than taiwan status is a politically sensitive issue. the island off the coast of china has its own president, democratically elected government,
and the strong economy. but beijing regards it as a break away province that must be reunited with the mainland by force if necessary . it's condemned the u. s. and e, you force it calls provocative visits to the island. a u. s. congressional delegation landed in taipei on tuesday. it follows the 1st official tour from you legislators last week, who praised tiwana as an ally for democracy and freedom. china's foreign affairs ministry accused the u. s in the you of collaborating with taiwanese independence forces president, she didn't ping warned against what he calls a return to cold war era. divisions me seem to attempt to draw audiological lines on geo political grounds. will fail. the asia pacific shouldn't relapse into the division of the cold war era. only 15 countries recognize taiwan as an independent nation, the u. s. and the u. a not among them. however, they do maintain
a relationship of strategic ambiguity. the u. s. has a military presence in taiwan. tensions between beijing and taiwan. around the rise . china is a full sent a rec, hold number of war planes into the islands a defense zone. last month. china is the use largest trading partner. taiwan economy remains heavily dependent on china and taiwan is one of the world's biggest technology producers. for example, it supplies many components for the latest smart phones. the. let's bring our guests into the show. we have joining us from ty pay, brian hue, writer, and founder of new blue magazine in both hand in south korea, robert kelly, professor of political science and diplomacy at present national university. and in beijing, victor gout chair, professor at su chow university. welcome to all i could stop. have this done with
victor. what message is being sent? do you think to china by the congressional visit to taiwan? well, 1st of all, this congressional visit to the, or to taiwan, or by the u. s. members of congress is a serious violation of the one china policy and china will take measures accordingly. and china has already announced our series of sanctions against 3 most seniors are members who promote power independence. and i think all these members of congress from the united states will be put on the sanction list, meaning they will be banned from entering channels, mainland channels, hong kong challenge, macau, and they and their family members will be banned from do any business with china's mainland hong kong and macau, i think this sense a very strong message that china does not tolerate any such provocation. any
attempt to bo, promote one china, one, taiwan or cohen independence. this is a line drawn in the sand and no political force entire one will ever be successful in achieving power independence. why? because history does not allow that. and the 1400000000 chinese people does not allow that at that number of chinese people include the majority of the 23000000 people on taiwan. this is the reality. i hope u. s. politicians will be realistic and pragmatic. they shall not bet on highway independence at all. victory is the u. s. in china heading towards the cold war. no, i don't think so. why? because the cold war is against the fundamental interest of the united states, against a fundamental interest of china. it is against that world of peace and development . all right, let me warn you off cold war. let me bring in robert. if i may, there not ask the same question. do you think it looks like i mean this talk of
sanctions band less military drills? promises to stand by taiwan sound like a cold or shaping up to you? yeah, a dog. i think if you listen to dr. gough, it sounds an awful lot like a cold. you're talking about sanctioning members of congress right in the united states as done that kind of stuff to there's been a big shift in the american opinion, and i asked 4 or 5 years about engagement china. now there's a growing regret that the united states facilitated china's entrance into the retail. i think that's one. the reasons why she was up taken language about taiwan, taiwan. it's increasing becoming the focal point of sino american competition along with the south, tennessee. and yeah, i think we're sort of sliding there. i don't know. it's going to be as a disaster. yeah, i mean, i was gonna say, is it different this time? i mean, might be easy to draw the cold war parallels, but the economies of the, of the u. s. in china, or western countries in general and china much more into dependence. right. the
china is much wealthier, more wealthy than the soviet union was. that's right. and a couple things, 1st of all, chinese greater wealth means that it really does are in the cold work. last degree you're longer, right? i mean, the soviets were already losing a cold war by the 1970, because they simply couldn't afford the military spending to keep up with nato. and the countries around it, china got a much greater capacity. it actually slug this out and drag on for decade on the other hand. so the good news is because the 2 are you can look and reply and both have a business community that would strongly to avoid a cold war right in the us. i can't speak too much, but on the, on the us end to it, you know, the business community has been promoting investment in china for a long time. and us investment of the us business community has pushed back on on hawkish voices in washington, dc. and the thing tanks, you know, again, those want to take a harder line on china. now you have business community, it's actually softened a lot on china's not nearly as bullets in china as well. or there been a lot of issues with piracy and intellectual property and things like that in china
. so i don't think that your business community is sort of deterring hawks anymore and increasing in the hawks in the us are dominating the conversation. you saw that by and then trump, right, there's increasingly a bipartisan sort of agreement that the china is what a strategic competitor. i suppose. i don't want to say anything. i don't think we're there yet. but a strategic competitor. i think americans would agree with that is the view from ty pay. brian, why do you think west and interest has increased in taiwan lately? we've had not only this visit from members of congress, but we also recently had visits from european officials to ty pay. yeah. so we just saw the question of a new cold war, but whether this framework does apply to the present, and i think what is different between the new cold war and the old world war, the original cold war is that china and our car, i cannot frames are fine and i want is a place that is neatly between the 2. i want manufactured more than half to make a doctor's around the waters. and so isn't finding that this becomes
a flash point regarding us and china not only are all regarding the trade interest as well. and so, for example, going to some reports, it's not a factor spending enough. or even in the cruise missiles from final pointed out, i want and i think this is illustrative of the dilemma that i want, that i want is very intertwined economically, which china is reliance on the us curity. there is not a majority of counties that are in support of china pull over. that's the question that this is a hinge point for us in china are battling out for interest. and taiwan is serving as a box, the arena in which they are over the presence. let's take some of those points back to vic to then in beijing. victor, do you think china is increasing ability to projects its its power militarily, whether it's over taiwan, whether it's in the south china sea to project it's economy and economic influence through 5 g technology to allegedly cyber security breaches. do you think all of
that is fueling concern in the west? now 1st of all, china is a big power in the world. and china does need our national defense capabilities commensurate to it's increasing economic are reached. this is a fact. second point, china's national defense is mostly for domestic defense, as well as liberating taiwan if we have to all peaceful reunification with taiwan, preferably and china's military defense is designed to protect china's legitimate interest in the far corners in the world. this is the nature of china's national defense. china does not want to invade any other country or take over any other countries land, because this is not only against china's own interest, it is against the principle of peace and peaceful coexistence with all the other countries in the world. therefore,
i think there are people who are raising false alarms about about china's economic development or the steady development of its defense capabilities. china's defense capabilities are very large, is on the par with the united states. so very large extent. and anyone will provide a victim about simply defensive posture in july, we had that coordinated us in european condemnation of china for what they saw as hacking. if you talk about hacking, read the edward snowden, his book, or writings a, you will know who is the top hacker in the world today. don't mention to me about china doing hacking, where you ignore what edward snowden has written, very eloquently about who is the king of hacking in the world of today. ok, let's take that point to robert's is the west. increasingly viewing china as an adversary
on political, economic and security levels, because china is gaining an ability to do back to old pals what they've been had the monopoly on doing power selection. sure. and yeah, yeah i, i think that's pretty, pretty clear also, right. i mean, china, as i, dr. got pointed out, china is developing a full spectrum of military insecurity presence, which means not just a traditional force projection across water and air, which is of course taiwan. big concern. but that also means like center space undersea outer space will also become an issue. us in china wall will certainly try to militarize lower earth orbit in the next 30 or 40 years. i would not be surprised that at all. right. i mean, that's going to happen during the 1st goal were to write him in the cold war sort of very quickly in the 1950s are spread out into a 3rd world and sort of got all mixed up and inter anti colonial insurgencies and stuff like that. and you'll be at nom and the rest of it. and so i would not be
surprised if the larger political competition between the 2 were to spill in all kinds of different directions. right. i mean, i think the good news is that i doubt that would be sort of sustain major land conflicts like there were during the 1st cold war. things like i can't stand and korea. i doubt that will happen again. and because most of the constant conversation between the us in china is on china's maritime perimeter. right. which stick in the water? so that's good because that means you shouldn't actually have some major land conflicts. but again, i think up there on the other side, that sort of good news on the other side, you know, the bad news, i suppose for the americans to be well, is that china is much wealthier and can expanded all these domains and actually count to the americans, again as dr. dimension. right. americans are in the hacking too, and i'm sure you know, i don't know too much about this, but i'm pretty sure that the american chinese are both trying to hack each other. i don't think anybody would be surprised at that. my up, i'm kind of caught in the middle. i think the picture that emerging from the discussion is that there is a much bigger political, global power game going on between the west and china. taiwan is in the middle.
let's take that question to tie, pay and ask brian. then does this mean from the tie when needs perspective, do they see that the west is actually invested in taiwan in taiwan independence, per se, all simply invested in taiwan as a car to play off against china? the very question is something that i want has struggled with for decades effective . how long has a decades of thousands, a missile or a point to mr. there's around $600.00 aaron identification in the past year, which is october 1st and october 5th. the 5 days after signing special day, there wonder 50. and so these chinese directed us, i want to increase the people are not in panic because of the fact that they use the same fine pacing policies, strategic ambiguity. what the american position is on power on is clear. you have the strength of relations with taiwan as you see under a trump and under bided over at the end. the day there is not a commitment to back,
but at the same time, what needs to be kept clear is that when he is, are not pushing for independence in the fact that most people are falling over the status quo. they realize that pushing for independence lead to a loss of american support, but i want to be this war. most pony is just wants to be left alone by china, and that's why they have stuck to the magic. you looking for this out of maintaining what is this now? the factor independence, but not there's your independent over aging is increasing. it's red line is changing with a red line, and i mean it's increasing respiratory i want, even though the preference is remaining. even though it's fine ministration itself called tried face is framed as percent per dependent. victor in beijing is china losing the ability to discourage closer relations with taiwan by signaling you know that there'll be an economic cost in the past. it seems that that made western
countries a lot more cautious. but lately we've had, i think in august the lithuanians, authorizing the opening of a taiwan representative office, the president of the check senate visiting taiwan in september, the u. delegation that visited recently. and now this congressional visit. well, so civil, you talked of our, several eastern european countries, and i want to remind you that china already asked that country the records are mazda to china, if they continue on to the wrong path of provoking china in violation of the one china policy chair that probably will sever it's the appro by they've relations with that particular country, but they say the record have trained to my question will have, does that lean jain is and ability tire time fluence other countries policies towards taiwan? is my question. yeah, the, the answer is the invalid is all the impact to be very clear. there is only one
china, taiwan is part of china. this is acknowledged by the united nations by almost all the countries in the world, including all that you members states, including the united states, including all it's 5 i members, state your name it japan. acknowledge that this is the corner stone of china's foreign relations with all the countries in the world. with all the united nations, not the united states, cannot have the cake, i eat it back in 1979, the united states did the right thing. they sever the relations with taiwan. they cancel the defense treaty between the united states and taiwan. they withdrew all the u. s. troops, station leading taiwan. now if they want to really reverse that, be my guest, but the consequences will be there will be no more to provide the relations between china and the united states and the real legal status between channels. mainland anti one is the our finished
a civil war. why taiwan ended up with his current situation. first of all, it's because of the cairo declaration pottstown declaration. secondly, it's because of the civil war in china, the nationalist of forces, fred, the mainland, and settled down in taiwan. so if the united states keep provoking that they probably will provoke the resumption of the civil war. and do you think the u. s. wants to shit its sons and daughters plot for a civil war between channels, mainland and china as taiwan province be. ready my guest, i don't think the united states want to shed blood of the american soldiers full taiwan. why it's fuel tile ever since the beginning of the 96 is china's mainland already possessed enough military capabilities to take time one by a false one channel has never done that because we all prefer peaceful, renewed vacation of china. ok, let's take that point to robert. if we can then,
i guess the question is really, how far do you think the west, particularly the us is willing to go in supporting taiwan and supporting taiwanese independence. right. there's a lot of economic arguments against going all the way in 2020 china over to the u. s. is the top trade partner in 2020 china was also the u. s. is top tray. yeah. and i know that economic leverage makes it much, much trickier again. but the big distinction with the soviet union, right, we're able to play a sort of harder game at times. and so we weren't dependent on them. and i would imagine that the chinese will use to economic leverage, you know, to just push back on this. but as the economies begin to link, i do think that's coming. i do think united states is going to start on the line. it's economic relationship with china. i will take a. ready while, but as it does that will allow the united states to strike
a sort of harder position. but what is the moment i do is though, let's be realistic. i mean, you were talking about a major global economy that supplies a lot of things that everybody uses around the world. yeah. so yeah, then can take a long time, but i mean, ultimately i would, i mean, i would argue that politics trump's economics, that security and sovereignty and strategic concerns for most nation states are more important than running a trade deficit or, you know, getting through. but really what that means, the u. s. is going to try and produce everything itself again, and a complete reversal of, i don't know, decades of globalization trends. i mean, no, no, just, we're trying to. but child globalization though, isn't it? that's right. that's right, but it's also fairly recent, right? i mean, generally jointed, 20 years ago. i mean, it can be on wound, right? particularly if you're concerned concerned about a major collision superpower level. right. then, then, you know, suffering higher costs at wal mart is worth it. and i mean that, and the trumping people are the signal this, right?
i mean it's from people on the terrace on china, and i think the last comment, robert, no, i don't, i don't. i think the us business for me, like i said before, the business community, i don't really ambiguous about that, but i do think the business community to the right on china. yeah. i think the us business communities far less pro, trying to work, or in part because they think that the chinese government to regulate from unfairly and, you know, and then sort of politicize a lot of stuff and, and are forced tech transfer. and there are piracy and i v e. she's but, but yeah, i mean, i still think there's a fair block. yeah. what sort of the chamber of commerce i was trying to integration, but i think that's, that's that losing. and i also think, as i said before, the ultimate strategic concerns will be the ones that really matter. a perception is that china using sort of cheap goods at walmart in order to bully us friends in, in the region. then you know, it's all the way congress i call the shot not wall street. but since we're talking economics, let's take some of those points to time pe, brian, you think economic interest also something that taiwan is,
is benefiting from these economic into dependence concerns that robert is talking about in the west? is it particularly when it comes to integration? the need for taiwanese made semi conductors the west is increasingly looking at how to improve its business relationship with taiwan. right. and so there are arguments, for example, one of the shirts to china waiting taiwan. is that one that actually is trying to think about? there's also the argument then that the u. s. interests are from western country. if i want is because of, again making up. i'm writing, it's also important to keep in mind that china does not actually have to lift capacity to transport. and after that, i want to carry a long term occupation. and in the face, resistance, china would offer suffer enough losses. that is to be kind of a major political blow for the see. so that's our mind. but i think what is key to note then in terms of, for example,
translation routine i won and european countries is that this is free with eastern european countries that have not as strong a trade relation is fine up a bear to western your consumption. and they are reliance on the u. s. with purity, solar, taiwan, but in this case, against the threat of russia. and so, i think the point i want is a way to signal strength in relation with the u. s. in this, they have no motivation whether western european countries follow. i mean, there's no question that isn't so on from the europe is the leader of that is french. that is to be esteem. however, i think that, you know, we have to be careful in terms of how we look at the economical issues. when china, for example, when, when there is pressure applied to it, it actually oftentimes will boycott, for example, suitable good to register this budget, red south korea or other countries and the political pension permit. these are not good, but it's on supply chains for life on such doctors. and i think we need to be a little more specific here rather than think of things in the is very fuzzy. obstructions. ok, i think we've got about a minute left. so let me try and get in
a final word from victor and victor. what's the bottom line here? it does seem like the by the ministration has succeeded. some was him bringing allies together again in some kind of aligns against china. been perhaps more of an aligned to listen, the trump administration. how can china count that? well, 1st of all, channel united states will have their virtual summit meeting on monday, november the 19th or 15th, this sense, a very good message to the whole world. because ah, the dead end is not there and the 2 countries are not destined to fight off each other in the war. the 2 countries have much greater interest to talk about. then simply the pri, one issue. and the fact that channel the united states signed this climate change agreement in glasgow speaks loudly that china and the united states can't get their
acts together to promote corporation and friendship eventually. and taiwan will be a smaller fee in the overall scale of china. us relations after all, these are the 2 greatest donations in the world, the 2 most important militaries in the world, and the 2 largest economists in the world. i am very optimistic about the medium and longer term relations between china and the united states. i that's and on an optimistic note. thank our guest at this point, that's thank brian he, robert kelly and victor gal. and thank you to for watching, you can see the show again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com. further discussion had over to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha. inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. how handle there is an a j inside story. from me, sam is a van and the whole team here for now it's provide
a feeling the debate, 90 percent of the world's refugees have come from a common impacted country. the climate emergency is putting more pressure on across the world and amplify your voice. it's not really the future 8. now this is not a lock can get it cannot lose hope. we know what to do, and we have the tools to, to get back with all the paper, the stream on al jazeera. if america held up a mirror to itself, what would it see in a sense, the race is the story of america. what's working and what's not a lot of people were only talking about that. it wasn't at the top of the agenda if america can handle multiple challenges on multiple fronts. we need to go back to
school. the bottom line when i was just there on a ah, this is all to 0, i'm dirty and obligated with a check on your world headlines. asylum seekers who made the journey to the bella. rous, poland border have spoken of the abuse. they suffered at the hands of security forces in bella, ruth, they say they were beaten and robbed before being ordered to cross into poland. about 22000 people are living in dire fries and conditions as governments trade, accusations, and threats about the crisis. activists providing humanitarian aid on support to migrant along the border have held a press conference. they want the polish government to give and g o.