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tv   [untitled]    October 14, 2021 2:30pm-3:01pm AST

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a aside from it's being it for, for a security and leaders in order for employment. it's also headed by a figure and usually, and by convention to figure out christian and almost always for the full ford era. we had 3 army generals that went on to become a trust and somebody. so any army candidate or people stop usually comes with ambition. and this ambition also kind of him, anybody because christine's, the army cannot think is passed by me. it's is also a subjugated to, it's been ridiculous executive power and to compete. so it has to fit your case from the executive. but it also plays politics in terms of trying to fewer at negotiating a leverage off the chief of staff in any future role that might come knocking at
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his door. so from one side, the army always wait for this particular decision and from the other, it calculates lots before going in calling any kind of inviting mind you at the end of the day or we are seeing that and maybe hundreds of armed men and the shipment and the streets of bay doors, and even if the army wants to interfere, it's not a walk in the park, so there must be a certain instruct you do that, but not an expert on that. in order to get my opinion with this. and then now we may be of
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i think i'm calling with some concerns with what's happening with they would want them done fine for new people now more than 2 dozen for a long time. we've got done fine. and what was the front line with the full dividing thing and xena xena.
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you know, a lot of the narrative this year and the last year about let me was mostly confess, month the people who are fed up with the cook o'clock to what extent has the dispute over this judge over this investigation? and now these clashes change that non sectarian. 6 vibe that was rising in the country. mm hm. yeah. so that's 11 more time than a can you hear me?
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oh, yes, i mean i can hear you, i'm sorry. but as you can see, we are in the front line. the building in front of us is coming under a lot of fire. it's hard to say whether or not there are still civilians in that building, but i could imagine the glasses are now in for the hour. they must have left by now . but that building in the neighborhood of i know many which has a strong hold of the lebanese, the forces, the christian w 4 said to my right is the stronghold of the shell parties. and has the law class is no, it isn't. it's 4 hours. this is really one of the most serious and intense gun battles. and the streets available in your area has awards on the army out in force, but still unable to contain the situation. unable to do stop, these ongoing gun fights, a lot of sniper fire over the past few hours. it just doesn't bode well for the
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future of this country, so that's why i believe a rocket propelled grenade. they are using have a machine gun fire rocket propelled grenades. this doesn't look like it's going to any time soon. zayna, let me ask you, we can see that there are political farming tra when we see soldiers standing around. but are they actually trying to engage no, as far as we can see, no, i tell them for 2nd phase side or seem to take excuse me. what, what does that tell us? does that tell us that the video? what does that tell us about the leaders of reflections right now? does that suggest they have not reached any kind of a consensus on containing this? and that's why is standing by. it's not getting involved.
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exactly. there's still no deal if you like. and they're negotiating on the ground, these different political parties. what does this tell you? the army say on the side lines simple. there's no state. the state is weak. the political parties are stronger than the states. the political parties have to have in our arms more than the states, and these political parties have been governing this country for decades. now take advantage of this because if there is a strong state and there is a rule of law, then they're not able to exploit the state resources. they aren't able to impose their, their agenda. so this is why 11 on is a failed state. since the since the end of the civil war in 1990, there has been no peace. there has been no reconciliation between the different secretary and groups. the 2 groups that are involved in this confrontation were enemies during the war. and these 2 groups have not made peace. it's unclear how
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after all this today, and what we understand, at least 5 people killed among them, among them civilians, a woman who was trapped in her home, hiding history until it hit her in her own home. our neighborhood, this is a confrontation happening in the middle of the city and a densely populated area. i must have no doubt. a lot of people would have moved fast, evacuated their homes, but many others are trapped. and many others are still worried about their children who are trapped in school or elsewhere. other people who are not able to reach their home. 2 to 3 are nice with their family member. this is a city terrorized traumatized. and these are political parties of negotiating with fire and, and what they're negotiating over the face of the investigation. and to that they report the explosive are to her, that she are group to want him removed. and there's the opposition,
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the lebanese forces and the others as well as the survivors, the vicar families, and the survivors who would like bitter thought are to continue his investigation. and they believed those who want to dismiss him. those who wants to undermine the investigation are doing so. in order to hide some say, you can see people escaping leaving the area. maybe they were here visiting relatives of people are traumatized summit. the streets are empty, people are a whole. most people don't even have electricity because of faith only only provides an hour or 2 about a tricity a day. so many will not be able to watch the news to see, to see what, what is happening. so we are now in the 4th hour and a really serious confrontation, security officials, the interior minister, even the prime minister, is now with a defense minister to see what can be done to contain the situation. but practically, on the ground, they haven't been able to do anything. i know it's a very fluid situation. we appreciate the complexity,
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says diana. but once again, the journalist inside you had to ask basic questions here. you referred a moment ago. the building, it's, which is now just behind you and towards our screen last as being a building belonging to the lebanese forces. and i know romana 5, do we know? do we have any clarity? is the gunfire coming? is it going towards? do we have any clarity or is there an exchange going on and it appears that there was an exchange, but what we saw over the past 10 minutes from our vantage point, was gunfire coming from she f towards i know many right now the sorts of gun fire it's very hard to say who started this,
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who is responsible. in fact, i can tell you that some people actually believe that this was all orchestrate. so they go that far. they go that far to say that this was orchestrated on the part of ireland has belong, in order to scare the lebanese people in order to push it's agenda in order to ensure that better is removed from his post. and they will use the security guard card to do so. now you tell me how can, why people say that it's the way that it is lebanese people think this way. they believe that this is the way their leaders have been. have been negotiating with each other, they use the threat to force, they warn about civil strife, they intimidate people, they threaten people, but has fallen among our blaming the lebanese forces. first starting this, they're saying in a statement that they release that a sniper open fire at a group of protesters who were walking towards the justice palace and that the sniper. it had the intention of chilly the protest,
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and the ambush was aimed at a stirring civil strife and descending the country into chaos. so you get these 2 narratives and it's very hard to independently say what happened. but what is clear is that this investigation has got so much pension, that the families of the victims, and many lebanese who want to know the truth, feel that at the end of the day, they will never know the truth. there will be no accountability. this is a country where the cult there is a culture of impunity, where those empower are above the law, where the judiciary is politicized. and that's why, but tar has earned a lot of praise from so many people because they see him as a rare judge or a judge who is able not to bow to political pressure. a rare judge who is pushing for with this investigation that despite threats because 2 weeks ago, a senior has villa official indirectly threatened he,
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they indirectly threatened him with a message that they passed via a journalist. basically telling him stop the investigation and were fed up with you . that's what he was told has, but i never confirmed or denied that, but they didn't deny that. and that's why they see better standing up against the establishment that he is a symbol of the rule of law. but hezbollah, m o, c. it otherwise they believe that he's politicized. they believe that he is picking and choosing who he is summoning for questioning. but even their own ally, the president, president of michelle, who is allied with husband and is not standing with hezbollah. and he's saying that give better a chance, let the investigation complete, let him complete the investigation and then judge him. and that's why a cabinet is now paralyzed, the government is paralyzed. it's unable to meet. because if they do meet and a clear stance is mon taken against bit tar, then amazon has below will pull out. they will withdraw their ministers. and what
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does that mean? the cabinet cannot govern because in this country there is a sectarian power sharing agreement, which means that the, every sec, the entire sex has to be represented. so if you, if they withdraw from cabinet, then you don't have she representation and the cabinet can't govern. and at a time like this, with the economy that has all that collapse and the need for talks with the international community, the need to implement laws in order for international financial assistance to start boring and it's just not the right time for them. so many people are saying the equation that has well on i'm up put on the table yesterday was get rid of the tar or there's no cabinet. and others are saying, today's equation is different, get rid of the tar, or the security situation will deteriorate dangerous times, dangerous escalation on the street, political escalation as well. both sides accusing each other and the people of this country trapped in the middle. as you can see, these are neighborhoods and the gun battles are raging,
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those neighborhood. alright, zana teddy, well, give you a 2nd to catch your breath and take it in. seems like there is a relative loan. that prevailing now, who knows for how long? i think we can bring in our guests in the moment. all right, i believe we have the demon khaki, a research or at another meeting center for policy studies joins us from beirut. good, have you with us. clearly there's been a serious security breakdown in by route today that's been ongoing, has been a breakdown in the political order in the understanding between different confessional and effect harry in groups. or is this just leveraging well, 1st of all, i'm no longer at the liberty center for policy studies on the initiative. but bacteria turns agreement between the different political factions had always been
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very precarious, and it's always been drawn to the millennium, those good. what we're seeing today is again, the movement and football uh, more importantly, play the role of the protectors of this regime. they're the ones that use violence more frequently as the counter revolutionary tool whenever this regime feels threat them. whenever there seems to be a threat, that risk impeding the political financial interests the political cause, you see those events like this take place now. that's one. it's been a long last seen the fact of violence on the street. and regardless of who are the warring factions, who instigated and who began the fighting experts, it's clear, its purpose is to preserve the side of the co. its purpose is to eliminate whatever hope is locked into somebody's population and, and creating further that by sickness and further insecurity for average. that is
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to take a step back and give up on this process of change and just accept that this is new reality and fear mongering and violence are the tools being used here. i'm glad you mentioned that segue is nice big. my next question, which i tried to pose a moment ago, is this a game changer for that? that vibe which emerged in lebanon, which was hailed is multi confessional, multi sect, harry and, and seen as the rebellion against the political cloth. regardless of what confessional fact they belong to, we saw that in the protest that were going on over various issues, corruption, lack of electricity and petrol. does this change that dynamic what we're seeing now? does it rescue the political late in the sense? yeah, we're seeing how the political beliefs are taking advantage of the criteria you
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mentioned. and we're seeing how living conditions that are deteriorating, create an environment where those sector and political parties can deploy their range of mechanisms to further stick their and their bases and to reproduce. their power, that's how we're seeing it through clientele, led them to distribution of services that the data and providing. and we're also seeing it now through violence disguised on during the narrative that we are your protectors and there's an enemy out there that's essentially threatening that. and that's just another one of its range of mechanisms that they deployed over the past 30 years. and even before, that's going back to the civil war, dave. so a lot of those sites are very familiar to a lot of people. a lot of the narrative that i've been hearing from people around me is that, that seem very familiar to them, especially older generations. and whenever you see that kind and push on grass
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cannot make deterioration. this type of violence is expected to follow. of course, while it is expected, it doesn't mean annual, enraging, and rating and saddening. very difficult day despite the fact that a lot of us here are in surprise. where is this going? is this is about the politically trying to hold on to that power rather than a desire amongst the different think pair in the late to re ignite, the lebanese, the renewal. so there is no real desire. where does this end with the collapse of the government and the new civilian facade, government that keeps the balance of power as it is. yeah, definitely, this is a show of power. this is a statement that are being made by that has that they are one of the most
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powerful factions, right now country and that they will not buy a government and who is finding the support judge. and that's why they're taking such a hard time and signaling all the other players and other been around. not that if they continue to, if they don't stand behind them and such, but it be everything in their power to get them. they are going to take control of the investigation and will, or the government by withdrawing from the company and, and keeping the whole process, which has been dragging the resignation of the previous parliament. and after the on delay government by foreign dissipating. that that would be perhaps the start, a new product that goes with the i am, i may be moving forward in their, in their process. but we all knew that it was all yeah,
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it was very much from the same variable that made us feel in the past, and we're seeing it here as long as you have the same political party or no matter what grade you come up with chrome, the criteria like it is very precarious and is going to fail essentially failing them. but this is what the outcomes that should have been expected all along went over the form. so basically, are you saying we could be heading to one of those periods, again, 1180 for the life. we've had extended periods where there was no government form. yeah, it's a good luck whether it's officially whether the government officially resign or it completely that remains to be seen, but some form of political gridlock is definitely on the table. and the more likely scenario my what does that mean for the 11 and of today?
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11, and that is facing such a huge multiple try see me further deterioration. it means that the needs of the people who have been working since the start of the revolution and in over 2019 will continue the rating and there is no visible and inside. it's not coming from any space or what's left of the living space. people are barely holding on relying on an inconsistent age and other forms of things that are not sustainable to maintain the topic of the country and maintaining the basic level living condition most people. so instead of having a political thought that's rallying to find a solution, to save the living, people from the missions that they're from everyone residing and the love any 3rd for you. whereas in further political vickery, that meeting today,
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and the fighting and residential areas, civilians all over are being pharma sized, their lives. they don't know where their loved ones are, and it just further to the calamities that we've been going through over the past 3 years. when we talk about the 11 nice people, let's put this in tangible, simple terms that we can all understand. we're talking about people who are facing a challenge in a crisis with very basic things like water report in july by eunice raised the alarm band on that more than 70 percent of the lebanese population facing critical wants a short. right? yeah, and the, i mean, right now people are no less than 2 to 4 hours of state and electricity a day in some areas they don't get any electricity at all. a segment most basic
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resources like water, like a petrol like a cooking gas. basic supplies are missing or have become completely on affordable for a large majority of the population and adding to that this layer of violence and threat to people's lives is making it a bit existence on the ground here even more unsustainable. and there's very little that they'll have been use people can do to continue going under those circumstances. and this political cause is only making it worse and worse as worse for you. so you go to then ask the question with that social conditions of life, does the average lebanese person one to go back to fighting for hazel hook, confessional sectarian elite that has presided over the collapse of life, the quality of life, the lebanese used to have yeah,
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i think that maybe it's not about the sector and identity that driven driven driving them back to their leaders rather than like, material necessity, associate economic necessity. where because of a lacking stayed because of a lack of options of no available alternatives. a lot of people are being forced to rely on a secretary in parties either to secure access to my discern, to a question piece or their kids who are going to school, access that jobs or any kind of income for the sector and parties while they're trying to list it, connect where just hadn't been depleted, they still have access to some resources and they are still able to preserve some kind of them based on how much space, how strong it definitely has. but it wasn't the lebanese population. and lebanese remains nuance and complex. there is
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a huge chunk of the population that is opposed to this regime that will, that it, there is no doubt that they have completely established the fact that they will not turn back to those political parties. but there is, there is another significant portion of the population that's just this illusion that last whole, that doesn't care about anything or anyone. and it's not about sick there in parties or even the alternative groups that are speaking on behalf of the revolution. these people have completely lost faith in any kind of progress and a year to medium term. and this is what's becoming more and more of the case amongst people. is that the revolutionary spirit that that was there. and october 2019 has faded away because of this accumulation of worsening and deteriorating living conditions. there is no more of the spirit debt was gave hope to people and that was pushing towards dropping this political costs
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out because they forced us into a state of survival and to a state of just needing to a minute for ourselves. and our karma leads, instead of thinking about that collaborative and about what ways to oppose history . she does one of the tools that they are relied on by accel at the, by extending the length of this can only crisis, they were able to take away the revolutionary for that initially gave a lot of people hope that there was potential in political change in this country. all right, thank you very much. it's been good talking to the demon cock that let's just take in for a moment. what's been happening? it's relatively quiet, relatively quiet. in beirut for the last 2 minutes or so. after the balance of heavy gun, the fire that we were hearing in this area area,
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which of course has very historical significance to those in the day and other than the civil do. it's like a vein that runs between the 2 lungs, all important sections of lebanese society that were engaged in the living civil war before. now that we can say that today has been a day of heavy gunfire in this area. let's go to pull more cos he's the founder of the just to see a law firm joins us now from bay. rude. good to have you with us. hello. yes. thank you. the events that we have seen today in beirut? do they spell the end of that dr. for justice and accountability for issues related to the bay route for loss or for any issues that might call into
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question some of the political relief i think somehow yes, surely functioning. this is like the end on any efficiency need investigation. mean the board exposure? i think yes, i recently and historically there was no follow up on the crime. that nice scene guys are not politic in or that get on the dish and all of them do the initial dancer on which is an exceptional called on month. they were never law the game. and then i
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think now i was missing a game where the foreign or the game wants to answer and the measure you are efficient joke who are marked. they can live here 11 on lawsuit against the judge. and this is not the 1st time. there was another judge beginning and then we gave to another judge and now we're missing and to stop the investigation. clearly stop the investigation and make it sound right. not efficient anymore. this is what i am afraid of. hello. ok.
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thank you very much for joining us. it is now approaching $1200.00 g m t. you're watching al jazeera. that's bring you up to speed with the main story that we've been following here today for the last few hours. clashes, raging 11, and these are, these are the live pictures coming to us from bay root. the worst street violence we've seen in years, the casualty toll not looking good, so far. 6 confirm dead. 2 dozen people wounded lebanon's minister of the interior by molo, a says the 6 people killed during the protest was shot in the head. the real threat lies in the use of weapons and those who have targeted peaceful demonstrators. there were peaceful demonstrations everywhere during the past 2 years, but we have not seen such an attack against them and speak now to be bought
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off in the independent journalist and founder of the bay roots were.


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