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tv   [untitled]    October 7, 2021 2:30pm-3:00pm AST

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i see and fix it deep into their bedrock, bringing the world a little closer to its carbon neutral goal. charlie angela al jazeera, headless heavy iceland. ah, so this is our desert, these are the top stories an earthquake in pakistan's. bleach or stone province is killed at least 20 people and struck in the early hours flattening houses while people were sleep. rescue operations are underway, but the hottest errors, difficult to get to iran for a minister is in beirut for talks on lebanon, sparring economic crisis, a month after the formation of a new government there, a certain amount of de la he had met liberties, president mitchell own turan as an important backer of his below and which is one of the main groups in lebanon's government. zenato has more now from beirut. iranian foreign minister saying that they're ready to help lebanon break what iran and its allies in lebanon consider the siege on this country. but in reality,
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what he is doing is asserting iran's presence asserting iran's control over this country because he is building on what happened just a few weeks ago. it's ally, has bala managed to import sanctioned iranian fuel through us sanction syria in the country now has been saying that the aim was to alleviate the fuel shortages in the country. but there is no doubt that this was a diplomatic and propaganda victory for hezbollah. and the iranian camp in a lebanon the nobel prize for literature has just been awarded 3 tons, an inborn novelist. at the resurrected gunners work focuses on focuses on colonialism and the fate of refugees. it is the 1st time and non european or american has won the prize in more than a decade. the world health organization has endorsed the 1st vaccine against malaria. it's recommended the jap be rolled up to millions of children across africa. the vaccine is 70 percent effective when combined with other treatments.
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sedans, finance minister says the government is considering air lifting medicine and fertilizer to help solve a supply crisis. he says it will be too expensive to move fuel and wheat buyer from port sudan to the capital, caught him at the port has been blocked by members of the bridge or tribe in the east security forces. engineers here have rated the studios of an opposition tv channel and have seen some of its broadcast equipment. just days ago, one of the channels main presented was arrested for criticizing president case said, and that was live on air. you have to stay with headlines. more news coming up here on our desert right after inside story. i've now ah
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energy prices of hit record high is in europe. many families are struggling to pay that power bills. it's triggered protests and even crisis meetings. a b u leaders. so what's causing the power crunch and the blocks push for renewable energy to blame. this is inside stored. ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm darren jordan. europe is facing a worsting energy crisis ahead of winter. gas prices have reached record highs and supplies are running low across the block. well around the world, demand for natural gas and oil is up. as economies reopened not to cobit 19 lock downs. europe has about 3 quarters of its gas in storage, much lower than normal, but this time of the year,
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power bills are already going up. italians have been told to expect a 40 percent increase over the next few months. you finance ministers are demanding coordinated action to secure supplies. the european commission president says the crisis shows the block needs to produce its reliance on fossil fuels and invest in green energy. it is a serious issue. i think we have to be very clear that the gas prices are skyrocketing for renewables. the prices have decreased over the last years and our stable so for us is very clear that with energy in the long term, it is important to invest in renewables. that gives us stable prices and more independence because gas is important. 90 percent of the gas is important to the european union. when europe relies on russia for much of its natural gas, president vladimir putin is boosting supplies through ukraine. but he says the you
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can only blame itself what he calls the blocks historical push for renewables. lonely people go to the transition to green energy should happen smoothly. and our country definitely has all the possibilities to avoid those mistakes. so we can see where unbalanced decisions even unbalanced actions and abrupt movements can bring us today. as i said before, we can clearly see it on the european energy markets. ah, so let's bring in our guess in burn switzerland. economist connie la, maya in berlin, andreas go, found professor public policy at the university of a foot and in brussels, silver pastorelli. a greenpeace. you climate and energy campaign. i welcome all to the program. connie le, in, but let me start with you 1st. if i may, i mean, many analysts are saying that this energy crisis is a perfect storm of a number of factors. what do you think is behind the crisis? and how bad is it? a number of factors, once the mind is bad,
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then especially when you look at gas and maybe also called storage is as low it's. it's been in more than a decade simply because we have very, very cold winter last year. and then we have, you know, we have the, the shenanigans between europe and russia, all gas and politics. and those, the me also have climate change to deal with. we all we, all everybody, including myself, we want to achieve the price, climate change goals. but to get it from here today, and we still need investment in transitional fuels like gas, and that's hard to come by ways. so people are not investing and the weather is getting cold. so we are in the perfect storm of prices, skyrocketing and the economy is also recovering from a pasco, it sewer pester really in brussels. i mean, what's your take on this crisis?
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and i'm, and surely the expert should have seen this coming well at many people levels to said that these crisis is linked to tay renewables that to the energy translation. actually, it's quite the opposite to because a funny thing is because the transition hasn't come fast enough on the crisis is linked to our over reliance and on gas. this is the problem here. ease at that. we have a lot of renewable energy online, but actually still a gas is the highest bigot it there on the market, which is actually dictates the price is and it's a, it's what making at people feel the a, feel the energy crisis in a very personally. so let's just stay with that issue of the renewables for a 2nd to bring us undress, go, fell address is green, transition is still in its early stages, which is what the experts are telling us. is there an argument here on risk that the process isn't fast? enough, and we need to speed up infrastructure and supply well,
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you can't go fast enough for right in order to fight the clone crisis, you could go with, you know, full speed and everything that you can. but i would still say that the european union is then the right way with the european grid deal and, and what the various policies you know, towards the compensation. if you just think about it. i mean, after 2030, we're essentially facing our fossil fuels. we're, we're, we might, we keep gas for a little bit. i'm not hello. oh, coil is going to be gone for a very short time and, and coal is going to face out in most of the countries within the next decade. so it's not going fast enough. but it is certainly taking up see connie lemaire, is this current crisis? do you think going to derail the transition to green energy and also was the time frame for this transition?
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just too unrealistic anyway. was somebody who would i do to timeframe was to it. realistic i was would say it's going to slow, but i think when we just need to make sure you know, that is the energy transition and there's the climate crisis which we all agree with. but there's also a social crisis so, so we need to make sure that in that transition there will be enough energy delivered from relatively clean sources of fossil fuels, which we still need until we have all that, all that infrastructure investor in them for renewables. and so we need to still make sure that the lights don't go out because what's happening now is, yes, we have a climate crisis. but at this point we have, we may face a very urgent social crisis where a lot of people with low incomes may need to decide between heat or food and that is not acceptable. yeah, and we'll come back to the issue of vulnerable people who are bit late in the program civil. let me come back to you. i mean,
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how much then does this current energy crisis in europe bring the use green transition on the fresh scrutiny? and what does this mean then for its climate policy over all? well, one thing that we know for sure is data as her as other than the program i've already said to you. is it you is going in the right direction? and this is it, this is obviously very good. but at the same time what we know that the targets and the policies that to you is put in place on that. the big umbrella, the green deal and are not fast enough or not sufficient. they do not match that they'd, i didn't match neither the urgency of the climate crisis nor what scientists are telling us that we should be doing. there has been huge consensus around at the causes of our changing climate and also on the policy measures that we should be adopting. and these consensus has been deaf with decades. the problem here is that and for the moment where it's not, it's not enough. it's too little we what we treat important is that we also make
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sure that it's not too late. all right, so, so address, i mean, you know, we're told that natural gas and cold still supply more than something like 35 percent of use total. what rolon does natural gas play as a transitional resource to bridge that gap to renewables? well, natural gas has been called a physician fuel, but as far as i'm concerned and as a bridge fuel. but as far as i'm concerned, it's not a very long range really. you know, we will need gas for the next decade or so. and we cannot phase it out immediately for a number of reasons, by the way. also including contractor reasons. we're still, europe is still tied into long term contracts, which you can just leave or otherwise would be pretty costly. but i, but natural gas will also pretty much give way to renewables at 2030.
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and that's maybe not tomorrow, but it's within less than a decade. and that is going to be pretty quick. we're going to phase in and blend is renewable fuels in the shape of renewable gases. how takes technologies, green hydrogen. these kind of things that will sooner or later, also eat into the margin of natural gas in the heart of the carbon sector, such as a new new steel, the heavy industries. we're talking about green field these days already, and that's precisely where a lot of gas will still need it for the next decade, but not much longer. all right, so address, you seem quite optimistic about the transition itself. i mean, cornelia, if renewables then not sufficient yet to dump and demand, do we need to face this harsh reality? i guess that that that co and dirty energy will be with us for some time to come to fill that energy gap. i say, yes we do is the matter here is to make sure that this is little girl as, as possible. and this must be clean if you always use gas as possible. but you know,
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there is such an enormous, enormous investment required to get from here to an 80 and we all again we on to go to ne cyril's man is enormous investment, re cry it. so in the mean time, we need to make sure we transition so that the lice don't go out and the so silly vulnerable, don't suffer an address. let me just m touch on the issue of how you think russia views this energy crisis. i mean, we saw a quote earlier on from the russian president vladimir putin. i mean, the fact is, europe does depend on moscow for much of its gas, but is russia using the crisis for geo political leverage? um, and it wants to get north stream through up and running anyway, doesn't it? well you're, you're touching on on, on a very important point here. me see to sticks of maladies. to russia's hasn't done
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anything wrong. they have supplied the context that they're supposed to supply. the problem is they haven't done much more. so typically over the summer, what goes from does is they refill the storage of europe. and for that, they book a lot of additional capacity in the trends of pipelines for crane and other countries. and that has done this, which means we're now at what 76 the center. so our storage being filled up and that compares about 90 percent on average, that we typically have every year. which means now the russians are using this to make the case for supply security being insured by way of bringing online will stream to their new pipeline. and which is the serious thing. hm. it's completed. but it is not operational. yes. for the russian analysis, she's suggesting and implicitly and more explicitly that in order to avoid
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a supply crunch the upcoming winter, you better make sure the european regulatory authorities back is the german regulatory authority better make sure that's happened becomes a racial ra, a c make for what you want, it certainly is about your politics. it is not necessarily about market behavior yet. that's an interesting point. you make a pastor really an interesting quote from the russian president vladimir putin. blaming the crisis on the e was what he called hysteria over transitioning to green energy. presumably putin doesn't want to see a quick transition to renewables, and he makes more money with natural gas as i was saying earlier, and it has actually nothing to do. we do with the transition to tour a new way to system. if anything, the problem is actually the opposite because we do not have a we have, we're not transition in fussing us. and it's over reliance on gas and gas infrastructure that has put us in the situation. and at the more money we will keep pouring into into fossil fuels,
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the more likely we are to face this kind of crisis in the future. monday. it's a, it's really important that we really move the investment in, in a different direction. and here it's where i would like to defer a little bit from what craned. it was hain it. it's very important that we send this very strong signal that philosophy subsidies nita end and need to be phased out very fast. because as we all know on resources of all kinds, economic resources, either not an infinite pied, it can be divided coretta and it, it's reading for them for the market to see as well where the day where the resources should be put in. on default, subsidies need to be phased out and this money needs to be put into renewables, but also to storage into batteries, into interconnections and, and so on and so forth. as if this, i think, is it is really of primary importance right now. let me just get a quicker response from cornelia about the russian aspect before we move the debates on, i mean, russia is suspected of slowing down. it's existing gas applies the list,
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just come out and said, no, that's not the case. if you're playing policy, it will russia with ice of us all, both. yes, playing politics with each other. you know, the relationship between europe and russia is not a happy one. the relationship between russia and many of the of the western world is not a happy mom. so they're playing politics with each other and, and, and, and use it as an element of russia playing politics. but there's also an element of a lot of money having been invested in. no, it's been to not just from the russian side, from the european side as well as, but it, well really coming back to the renewables. we all investing in renewables. and if you look at the strong guidelines, it's very high for banks, let's say this time to invest in upstream development of oil and gas so, so the money is flowing in the right direction and he should flow in that direction . we just need to make sure we get over that home. and we also need to get
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a little bit west in europe centric less western europe century. because when you go to, you know, africa and other places where people need mobility, they may not have the money to invest in all that electric vehicle infrastructure. so we need to make sure we keep the we still and less qualified and how. * it will we move on that fast speed towards energy transition and risk? let's just move the debate on quick and talk about emissions. i mean, what impact do you think the energy crisis then? we'll have on you admission commitments? i mean, if renewables on foss enough and colon gas, as you say, a plug in the gap, how is that like it? and to play out next month, clock $26.00 in glasgow. well 1st of all, i say, you know, the current crunch said we're talking about is, i mean, it is not great and it's difficult and it will affect the most vulnerable people
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across europe and elsewhere. but i would still say it's temporary, it is something that will go away after you know, a couple of months when, when the markets will change again. well, when we're going to have a soft, the markets. and so we probably don't have a lasting impacts on, on gas markets at the energy markets more generally the, i mean it's, it's hard to predict the future, but we have seen from that mach radio that even a major, a major economic crisis does not put in you know, does not do away with the structural reality is all the energy markets which are hard wired into energy infrastructure and long term energy investment. so what you gotta do is you've got to put structural breaks into that system and, and even a major, major crisis, did not do that. because what we've seen is that the, the greenhouse gas emissions over 29th of a 2020,
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they did considerably. but the picked up until the end of 20. 20. precisely. that's what happened before. and now they're picking up again and above previous levels. so we haven't learned that lessons really. we haven't gone where we should have been, which is learn the lesson from 2820 or 29 when we have a huge different greenhouse gas emissions. but then it went all back to the normal . we should have put the money more we're we're kind of policies are european 50 european said some other countries did not to us, did not the china did not. and others didn't either. which means overall on a, you know, on a global scale i'm, i'm almost pessimistic. for this small crisis that we're seeing here, having to have a lasting effect of putting structural breaks. and let me, let me just put that point that according to bay, i mean company know what does this all mean for the use climate commitments? does this crisis put yet more pressure on europe submissions?
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well, i think that i think that, you know, this is very, very, very, very clear on the car and the guidance of mrs. on the line that the green deal is really, really important. and they want to, they want to become the 1st met 0 continent in the world. so i think in co day will really i view for, for, for you know, for focus for going down. the reality is how do we again, i'm a pragmatist. how do we get from here today? yes, we are pouring the investment in there. absolutely. you know, you, i would guess this is right that we uh, we are hired in a certain way. but you know, once investors have put a lot of money in something, it's hard to, to go against that reality. especially if you want them then to invest in something else because they want to have some certain, you know, if they're in a fair investment. but if i look at the investment criteria,
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especially of my job banks and off of all the big, you know, an asset managers, they are really driving towards met 0. so if anything, the oil and gas companies are seeing a very tough time getting money in. all right, so we looked at the picture in europe. let's look around the rest of the world. if you can just briefly. i mean, prices for natural gas now reaching record levels, sylvia posterity. what does this mean? do you think for developing countries who are struggling to restart their economies in a post covered world? i think it does a few points as us have. we have already quite touch upon in the conversation that are very important. first of all is it is talking about the people who are most vulnerable and we're talk we can, we can talk about people who are most vulnerable, both in europe, but also elsewhere. and thinking about the, the at energy crisis and the price crisis right now. it's absolutely important state government having place, plans full. those were at most risk of,
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of energy poverty. and i think this is a valid point in general, even beyond europe as well. and 2nd air, i think this is also even more crucial for you for outside europe. at the point of where we are, signaling debt being best meant is worth making and debt. and what is why it was mentioned earlier, the point of around to foster if you subsidies and that needs to be faced out because this continues to send the wrong signals in europe, but also elsewhere. because if you keep pouring money into a, into the st. francis fossil gas infrastructure, we will only and out, especially in the face of climate. what he says in climate crisis would only end up with stranded assets and we're locking in more and more emissions at witnesses a value. i think this is volley for both europe and an outside, and as europeans, i think, to stick up is a perfect opportunity for us to make sure that we provide support to those outside of your county. i see you nodding your head there. i mean,
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we're already seeing rolling electricity blackouts in china, energy companies going bust in the u. k. is this a warning? do you think the rest of the world? why didn't want to do the rest of the world? i would especially look at the, at the developing world because we need to make sure we know the developing world. i think so. there's absolutely right there. we need to make sure that we help the, the developing world with the help of the cop twitter the purchase agreement and you know, funding mechanisms. and we help them invest in the face. but we also need to make sure that we get over to the lights, don't go out while we're doing all the right thing. so we may need to live for a little while longer with the cleanest of the, of the, of the fossil fuels. to ensure that people still have mobility have heating her, but at any yeah, address, let me ask you this. some ensued or touched on this issue of vulnerable people. i mean, many vulnerable people have already been hit by the economic impact globally of
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corona virus. now they face spiraling energy bills. what does this mean then for ordinary people or what should governments be doing to help them? well, governments can do a lot of things that we have to spin through a major can on crisis. so most of the means that we have at our disposals and the schools there are tested and, and we know how they work. in the end it can be anything from rebates to texas. auctions to simply checks being sent out to people in portable households. probably so some priorities need to be made, you know, to targets on the one hand, some of the industries that are important to keep and to keep running a sales job. so people and on the other hand to, to make sure the social impact of the current crisis does not adversely affect the most vulnerable. so there are some calibration to be done, but i think the other thing that, that we need to make sure is that we in the end start saving energy. i mean,
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this is the one thing we cannot do now is taker with the supply side. there is not going to be a lot of more gas coming along, nor can we just leave content policies and for a callback in. so what she, what you get otherwise, you know, the strain energy of stringency of climate policies put in question. so what you got to do is you've got to take her with the demand side. conservation measures are important here, and then you've probably got a pretty low, ok. we're going to have him all winter konita, a final thought from you. when to foss approaching in the northern hemisphere, how to governments than help the most vulnerable in society, i mean, many people simply cannot afford to pay the energy bills. yeah, i need to subsidize what i need to do, how much we don't agree with. so we always, we shouldn't subsidize any past, but we may need to subsidize, may, may need to get them transfer payments because we can know, especially in europe in the development. i see the world we cannot ask people
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pensioners out people weak people asked to choose between food and heat. that's. that's just, that's not right. but i think we also need to look for that. we need to look when we need to do an energy conservation. absolutely. that's the low hanging fruit, and we need to look at all the technology when we produce c, c, u. s, and august, carbon capture usage and storage, and all of the green hydrogen and all of those things. all right, we have to leave it there. thank you. very much to all our guests. connie la in bern, andreas golf out in berlin and silver pastor, really in brussels. thank you very much indeed. and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is a j inside story. for me,
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darren jordan and the whole team here. good bye for now. awe at night in a stock home supper, somali mums patrol the streets fully ski and low, low to high, or lack of clean yameen, tired of gang violence, the use the maternal approach to prevent time a a do we're house, but a bit to button in the stories we don't often hear told by the people who live them,
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mothers of ring to be. this is europe on al jazeera. we understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world. so no matter what movie when use and kind of pause that matter to you, in a quality corruption repression and read a bullet ticket, it just decided to cost to the piece of cake. i'm sure it won't be a new documentary explores the desk for the states of democracy and lebanon. oh, through the eyes of those who are losing home every day, o teens are becoming fluid. democracy, maybe democracy for sale on al jazeera. ah, which is here, where ever you oh,
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i hello there, i'm miss darcy tay into howard the top stories for you here on out as era. the nobel prize for literature has just been awarded to a tanzanian born novelist. under rather, gunners work focuses on colonialism and the face of refugees. and the 1st time that a non european or american has won the prize in over a decade. and is also the chairman of the nobel committee for literature cause ghana, one of the world's most prominent at chris colonial rises, been since publication of his novel paradise. in 1994, he has been widely recognized as one of the world.


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