tv [untitled] October 7, 2021 3:30am-4:00am AST
boomed, roberta says he'll rebuild tow decay, he says will rise again. such is life in the shadow of a volcano. jona whole al jazeera palmer, the nobel prize in chemistry has been awarded to to scientists for their development of the project precise tool for building molecules. the royal swedish academy of sciences says the work of benjamin list and david mcmillan has had a great impact on pharmaceutical research and is already showing benefits for humankind. ah, are you watching out here? and these are the top stories at this hour. at least 15 people have been killed in an earthquake that has struck at southern pakistan. the quake had initially registered at 5.4 magnitude, but was late a revised to 5.7. the at the center is located over 100 kilometers east of cueto.
the world health organization has endorsed the 1st to ever vaccine to prevent malaria. it's been tested in 3 african countries since 2019 and has been recommended for children. malaria is the main cause of childhood illness and death in sub saharan africa, within $260000.00 children under the age of 5 die from the disease every year. i. some of you may know i started my career as a my little researcher and i longed for the day that we would have on effective vaccine against this ancient and terrible diseases. and today is that day on historic day to day w, tuesday come and do the broad use of the world's 1st minute vaccine. the ladies of the us in china will hold talks before the end of the year, top advises to joe biden,
and she jin ping agreed to the virtual meeting after they met for 6 hours in switzerland. the un secretary general has demanded evidence from 80 obelia over its expulsion of 7 un staff on misconduct allegations. and tony, a good tear is, is also calling on ethiopian government to allow unrestricted access to deliver humanitarian aid to millions of people. the prime minister of peru has quit just 2 months into he's a new administration. leftist politician gate obey ido has become a contentious figure. bader had talked openly about, nationalizing peruse, natural gas resources, and was struggling to negotiate agreements with indigenous communities. those of a headlines. i'm emily anglin. the news continues after inside story bye for now. ah,
energy prices of hit record high is in europe. many families are struggling to pay that power bills. it's triggered protests and even crisis meetings, a b u leaders. so what's causing the power crunch band is the blocks push for renewable energy to blame. this is inside story. with hello and welcome to the program. i'm darren jordan. europe is facing a worsting energy crisis ahead of winter. gas prices have reached record highs and supplies are running low across the block. but around the world, demand for natural gas and oil is up. as economies reopen off to cobit 19 lock
downs. europe has about 3 quarters of its gas in storage, much lower than normal, but this time of the year, power bills are already going up. italians have been told to expect a 40 percent increase over the next few months. you finance ministers are demanding coordinated action to secure supplies. the european commission president says the crisis shows the block needs to produce its reliance on fossil fuels and invest in green energy. it is a serious issue. i think we have to be very clear that the gas prices are skyrocketing for the renewables. the prices have decreased over the last years and our stable so for us is very clear that with energy in the long term, it is important to invest in renewables. that gives us stable prices and more independence because gas is important. 90 percent of the gas is important to the
european union. when europe relies on russia for much of its natural gas, president vladimir putin is boosting supplies through ukraine. but he says the you can only blame itself for what he calls the blocks. historical push for renewables, lonely video would go to the transition to green energy should happen smoothly. and our country definitely has all the possibilities to avoid those mistakes. so we can see where unbalanced decisions unbalanced actions and abrupt movements can bring us today. as i said before, we can clearly see it on the european energy markets. ah, so let's bring in our guess in burn switzerland, economist connie la, maya in berlin. andreas go, found professor public policy at the university of 8 foot and in brussels, silver pastor, really a greenpeace. you climate and energy campaign. i welcome all to the program connie la maya in burn. let me start with you 1st. if i may, i'm in minneapolis. are saying that this energy crisis is a perfect storm of
a number of factors. what do you think is behind the crisis? and how bad is it? a number of factors. once the mind is that then especially when you look at gas and maybe also called storage is as know it's, it's been in more than a decade simply because we have very, very cold winter last year. and then we have, you know, we have the, the shenanigans between europe and russia, all gas and politics. and those, the me also have climate change to deal with. we all we, all everybody, including myself, we want to achieve the price, climate change goals. but to get it from here today, and we still need investment in transitional fuels like gas, and that's high to come by ways. so people are not investing and the weather is getting cold. so we are in the perfect storm of prices,
skyrocketing and the economy is also recovering from a pass code. it sooner pass to really in brussels. i mean, what's your take on this crisis? and i'm, and surely the expert should have seen this coming well at many people levels to said that these crisis is linda tay, renewables, the to the energy translation. actually, it's quite the opposite to because a funny thing is because the transition hasn't come fast enough on the crisis is linked to our over reliance and on gas. this is the problem here. ease at that. we have a lot of renewable energy online, but actually still a gas is the highest bigot it there on the market, which is actually dictates the price is and it's a, it's what making at people feel the a, feel the energy crisis in very personally. so let's just stay with that issue of the renewables for a 2nd to bring us undress. goeth l address is green,
transition is still in its early stages, which is what the experts are telling us. is there an argument here on risk that the process isn't fast? enough, and we need to speed up infrastructure and supply well, you can't go fast enough for right in order to fight clone crisis. you could go with, you know, full speed and everything that you can. but i would still say that the european union is going the right way with the european grid deal and, and what the various policies you know, towards the compensation. if you just think about it. i mean, after 2030, we're essentially phasing our fossil fuels. we're, we're, we might, we keep gas for a little bit and not a long old coil is gonna be gone for a very short time. and, and coal is going to face out in most of the countries within the next decade. so it's not going fast enough. but it is certainly taking up see coney lemaire is this
current crisis? do you think going to derail the transition to green energy and also was the time frame for this transition? just too unrealistic. anyway. well we would, i did a timeframe was to it realistic? i was would say it's going to slow, but i think when we just need to make sure you know, that is the energy transition and there's the climate crisis which we all agree with. but there's also a social crisis. so, so we need to make sure that in that transition there will be enough energy dilemma from relatively clean sources of fossil fuels, which we still need until we have all that all that infrastructure invested in in them for renewables. and so we need to still make sure that the lights don't go out because what's happening now is, yes, we have a climate crisis. but at this point we have, we may face a very urgent social crisis where a lot of people with low incomes may need to decide between heat or food and that
is not acceptable. yeah. and we'll come back to the issue of vulnerable people who did late in the program. so let me come back to you. i mean, how much then does this current energy crisis in europe bring the use green transition on the fresh scrutiny? and what does this mean then for its climate policy over all? well, one thing that we know for sure is that a, as a, as other than the program i've already said to you, is it you is going in the right direction on the says that this is obviously very good. but at the same time what we know that the targets and the policies that say the you is putting in place on that the big umbrella, the green deal and are not fast enough and are not sufficient. they do not match that they died didn't match neither the urgency of the climate crisis nor what scientists are telling us that we should be doing. there has been huge consensus around at the causes of our changing climate and also on the policy measures that we should be adopting. and these consensus has been there for decades. the problem
here is that for the moment where it's not, it's not enough. it's too little we what we treat important is that we also make sure that it's not too late. all right, so, so address, i mean, you know, we're told that natural gas and cold still supply more than something like 35 percent of use total. what rolon does natural gas play as a transitional resource to bridge that gap to renewables? well, natural gas has been called a physician fuel, but as far as i'm concerned and as a bridge fuel. but as far as i'm concerned, it's not a very long range really. you know, we will need gas for the next decade or so. and we cannot phase it out immediately for a number of reasons, by the way. also including contractor reasons. we're still, you're is still tied into long term contracts, which you can just leave or otherwise would be pretty costly. but i,
but natural gas will also pretty much give way to renewables at 2030. and that's maybe not tomorrow, but it's within less than a decade. and that is going to be pretty quick. we're going to phase in and blend is renewable fuels in the shape of renewable gases. how takes technologies, green hydrogen. these kind of things that will sooner or later, also eat into the margin of natural gas in the heart of the carbon sector, such as a steel, the heavy industries. we're talking about green steel these days already, and that's precisely where a lot of gas will still need it for the next decade, but not much longer. alright, so address, you seem quite optimistic about the transition itself. i mean, cornelia, if renewables then not sufficient yet to dump and demand, do we need to face this harsh reality? i guess that that that co and dirty energy will be with us for some time to come to
fill that energy gap. i say, yes we do is the matter here is to make sure that this is little girl as, as possible. and this must be clean if you always use gas as possible. but you know, there is such an enormous, enormous investment required to get from here to an 80 and we all again, we on to go to ne cyril's when his enormous investment re cry it. so in the mean time, we need to make sure we transition so that the lights don't go out and the so silly vulnerable, don't suffer an address. let me just em touch on the issue of how you think russia views this energy crisis. i mean, we saw a quote earlier on from the russian president vladimir putin. i mean, the fact is, europe does depend on moscow for much of its gas, but is russia using the crisis for geo political leverage? um, and it wants to get north stream through up and running anyway, doesn't it?
well you're, you're touching on a, on a very important point here. me see to sticks of maladies. the russians haven't done anything wrong. they have supplied the context that they're supposed to supply the promise they haven't done much more. so typically over the summer, what from does is they refill the storage of europe. and for that they book a lot of additional capacity and the trends of pipelines for ukraine and other countries. and that has done this, which means we're now at what 76 the center. so our storage being filled up and that compares about 90 percent on average, that we typically have every year. which means now the russians are using this to make the case for supply security being insured by way of bringing online will stream to their new pipeline. and which is the serious thing. hm. it's completed.
but it is, it is not operational. yes. for the russian analysis, she's suggesting and implicitly and more more explicitly that in order to avoid a supply crunch the upcoming winter, you better make sure the european regulatory authorities back is the german regulatory authority better make sure that's happened becomes a racial ra, a c make for what you want, it certainly is about your politics. it is not necessarily about market behavior yet. that's an interesting point. you make a pastor really an interesting quote from the russian president vladimir putin. blaming the crisis on the e was what he called hysteria of transitioning to green energy. presumably putin doesn't want to see a quick transition to renewables, and he makes more money with natural gas as i was saying earlier, and it has actually nothing to do. we do with the transition to tour a new way to system. if anything, the problem is actually the opposite because we do not have a we have,
we're not transitioning fast enough and it's over reliance on gas and gas infrastructure that has put us in the situation. and at the more money we will keep pouring into into fossil fuels, the more likely we are to face this kind of crisis in the future. monday. it's a, it's really important that we really move the investments in, in a different direction. and here it's where i would like to defer a little bit from what craned. it was haine. it. it's very important that we send this very strong signal that philosophy subsidies need he any to be phased out very fast. because as we all know on resources of all kinds, economic resources, either not an infinite pied, it can be divided coretta and it, it's reading for them for the market to see as well where the day where the resources should be put in. on default, subsidies need to be phased out and this money needs to be put into renewables, but also to storage into batteries, into interconnections and, and so on and so forth. as if this, i think, is a,
is really of primary importance right now. let me just get a quicker response from cornelia about the russian aspect before we move the debates on, i mean, russia is suspected of slowing down. it's existing gas applies the list, just come out and said, no, that's not the case. if you're playing policy, it will russia with ice of us all, both. hi politics with each other. you know, the relationship between europe and russia is not a happy one. the relationship between russia and many of the of the western world is not a happy mom. so they're playing politics with each other and, and, and, and use it as an element of russia playing politics. but there's also an element of a lot of money having been invested in. no, it's been to not just from the russian side from the european side as well as, but it, well really coming back to the renewables. we all investing in renewables. and if you look at the strong e s g guidelines, it's very high for banks. let's say this time to invest in upstream development of
oil and gas so, so the money is flowing in the right direction and he should flow in that direction . we just need to make sure we get over that hump. and we also need to get a little bit west in europe century, less western europe century. because when you go to, you know, africa and other places where people need mobility, they may not have the money to invest in all that electric vehicle infrastructure. so we need to make sure we keep the we still unless we find and power. * whilst we move on that fast speed towards energy transition address, let's just move the debate on quick and talk about emissions. i mean, what impact you think the energy crisis then we'll have on you admission commitments? i mean, if renewables on foss enough on cold and gas as you say, a plug in the gap, how is that like it? and to play out next month, clock $26.00 in glasgow. well 1st of all, i say, you know,
the current crunch said we're talking about is, i mean, it is not great and it's difficult and it will affect the most vulnerable people across europe and elsewhere. but i would still say it's temporary, it is something that will go away after you know, a couple of months when the markets will change again. well, when we're going to have a soft, the markets. and so we probably don't have a lasting impacts on, on gas markets at the energy markets more generally the, i mean it's, it's hard to predict the future. but what we have seen from that mac ready is that even a major, a major economic crisis does not put in, you know, does not do away with the structural reality is all the energy markets, which are hard wired into energy infrastructure and long term energy investment so what you gotta do is you've got to put structural breaks into that system and,
and even a major, major crisis, did not do that. because what we've seen is that the, the greenhouse gas emissions over 29th of a 2020, they did considerably. but the picked up until the end of 20. 20. precisely. that's what happened before. and now they're picking up again and above previous levels. so we haven't learned that lessons really. we haven't gone where we should have been, which is learn the lesson from 2820 or 29 when we have a huge different greenhouse gas emissions. but then it went all back to the normal . we should have put the money more we're we're climate policies are european 50 european said some other countries did not to us did not the china did not. and others didn't either. which means overall on a, you know, on a global scale i'm, i'm almost pessimistic for this small crisis that we're seeing here having to have a lasting effect of putting structural breaks. and let me,
let me just put that point that according to bay, i mean, call me know what does this all mean for the use climate commitments? does this crisis put yet more pressure on europe submissions? well, i think that i think that, you know, this is very, very, very, very clear on the car and the guidance of mrs. on the line that the green deal is really, really important. and they want to, they want to become the 1st met 0 continent in the world. so i think in co day it will really, i've you for, for, for you know, for focus for going down. the reality is how do we again, i'm a pragmatist. how do we get from here today? yes, we are pouring the investment in there. absolutely. you know, you, i would guess this is right that we uh, we are hired in a certain way, but you know, once investors have put a lot of money in something, it's hard to, to go against that reality. especially if you want them then to invest in something
else because they want to have some certain, you know, if they're in a fair investment. but if i look at the investment criteria, especially of my job banks and of all the big, you know, an asset managers, they are really driving towards next 0. so if anything, the oil and gas companies are seeing a very tough time getting money in. all right, so we looked at the picks in europe. let's look around the rest of the world. if you can just briefly, i mean, prices for natural gas now reaching record levels, sylvia posterity. what does this mean? do you think for developing countries who are struggling to restart their economies in a post covered world? i think there's a few points as us have we have already quite touch upon in the conversation that are very 4th. and 1st of all is it is talking about the people who are most vulnerable and we're told we can. we can talk about people who are most vulnerable, both in europe, but also elsewhere. and thinking about the, the at energy crisis and the price crisis right now. it's absolutely important that
government having place plans full, those were at most risk of, of energy poverty. and i think this is a valid point in general, even beyond europe as well. and 2nd air. i think this is also even more crucial for you for outside europe. at the point of where we are, signaling debt being best meant is worth making and debt. and what is why it was mentioned earlier, the point of around to foster if you subsidies and that needs to be faced out because this continues to send the wrong signals in europe, but also elsewhere. because if you keep pouring money into a, into the st. francis fossil gas infrastructure, we will only end out okay. especially in the face of climate policies and climate crisis would only end up with stranded assets and we're locking in more and more emissions at witnesses a value. the think this is volley for both europe and, and outside and as europeans, i think, to stick up is
a perfect opportunity for us to make sure that we provide support to those outside of your county. i see you nodding your head there. i mean, we're already seeing rolling electricity blackouts in china, energy companies going bust in the u. k. is this a warning? do you think the rest of the world? why didn't want to do the rest of the world? i would especially look at the, at the developing world because we need to make sure we know the developing world. i think so. there's absolutely right there. we need to make sure that we help the, the developing world with the help of the cop twitter the purchase agreement and you know, funding mechanisms. and we help them invest in the face. but we also need to make sure that we get over to the lights, don't go out while we're doing all the right thing. so we may need to live for a little while longer with the cleanest off the off of the fossil fuels to ensure
that people still have mobility have heating her, but at any yeah address, let me ask you this. some ensued or touched on this issue of vulnerable people. i mean, many vulnerable people have already been hit by the economic impact globally of corona virus. now they face spiraling energy bills. what does this mean then for ordinary people, or what should governments be doing to help them? well, governments can do a lot of things, and we've just been through a major can on crisis. so most of the means that we have at our disposals dispos there are tested and we know how they work. in the end it can be anything from rebates to texas. auctions to simply checks being sent out to people in portable households. probably. so some priorities need to be made, you know, to targets on the one hand, some of the industries that are important to keep and to keep running a sales job. so people and on the other hand to, to make sure the social impact of the current crisis does not adverse effects the
most valuable. so there are some calibration to be done, but i think the other thing that, that we need to make sure is that we in the end start saving energy. i mean, this is the one thing that we cannot do now is take her with the supply side. there is not going to be a lot of more gas coming along, nor can we just leave content policies and bring cold back in. so what she, what you get otherwise, you know, the strain energy of stringency of climate policies put in question. so what you gotta do is you've got to take her with the demand side. conservation measures are important here, and then you've probably got a pretty low. okay. we're going to have him all winter konita, a final thought from you when to foss approaching in the northern hemisphere, how to governments than help the most vulnerable in society. i mean, many people simply cannot afford to pay the energy bills. yeah, i think they need to subsidize what i need to do, how much we don't agree with. so we always, we shouldn't subsidize any us,
but we may need to subsidize, may, may need to get them transfer payments because we can, especially in europe in the development. i see the world we cannot ask people pensioners out people weak. people asked to choose between food and heat that's. that's just, that's not right. but i think we also need to look for that. we need to look when we need to do an energy conservation. absolutely, that's the low hanging fruit. and we need to look at all the technology when we produce c, c, u, s, and august carbon cab to use it in storage and all of the green hydrogen and all those things. all right, we have to leave it there. thank you very much to all our guests. connie le, in bern, andreas golf out in berlin and silver pastor, really in brussels. thank you very much. indeed. i'm thank you to, for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com,
forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is a j inside story. for me, darren jordan and the whole team here. good bye for now. ah. with too often afghanistan is portrayed through the prism of war. but there were many of canister thanks to the brave individuals who risk their lives to protect it from destruction. an extraordinary film, archives spawning for decades,
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al jazeera looks at how the colonial unrest grew. conflict to no julia and full scale war and indo china blood and his french, the colonization on al jazeera. ah hello, i'm emily angland in dough. how these, the top stories on al jazeera, we begin with some breaking news. at least 15 people have been killed in an earthquake that has struck southern pakistan. the quake had initially registered at magnitude 5.4, but this was late, a revised up to magnitude 5.7. it's epi center is located over 100 kilometers east of quitter.