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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  May 21, 2021 3:30am-4:00am +03

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about dressing everyday problem. how can we improve health care, or how can we make labor intensive industries less labor intensive, or how can we make roads safer? for example, with the youth driverless technology. regardless of which country, when the race protect supremacy. analysts say international rules governing the use of a on needed for the protection and safety of all. katrina, you out a 0 hinge in china. ah, it is good to have you with a fellow adrian for to get a hearing though. how the headlines on our 0 a cease fire is an effect between israelis, hamas aiming to close, 11 days of conflict. egyptian broke. a truce also includes other palestinian factions in garza, such as the islamic jihad armed group. will palestinians have been celebrating in garza large crowds of also turned out in cities across the occupied west bank?
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i was serious stuff with alkalis as more from casa, we went to the state ourselves to see. we could see people who had been staying indoors for live in live in nights now deployed indices to the breaking the mouth off the shelf ready little higher. i also give a speech of victory as they described it. and he passed by destroyed residential area. and that was bombarded by the israelis on this family called a call at the last 46 over 5000000 members and attack. so that was simpler celebration on morning as well, by official us president joe biden says that he sees genuine opportunity for peace . we've held intention, high level discussions our by our literally egypt, palestinian authority and other middle eastern countries with the name of avoiding the sort of pro long conflict we've seen in previous years when hostile is broken
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out. i believe the palestinians and israelis equally deserved to live safely and securely and enjoy equal measures of freedom, prosperity and democracy. my administration will continue our quiet, relentless diplomacy toward that end. i believe we have a genuine opportunity to make progress and i've committed to working for it. there were more attacks just before the troops came to force this force and is ready as strike on garza. the conflict is claimed at least 233 palestinian lives that 12 people have been killed by rockets fired into israel. the you in general assembly had a special meeting to discuss the crisis. you and chief antonio. good cherish. told the general assembly that if there is hell on earth, it is the lives of children in gossip headlines ponies. he announces era after stays inside story. next me
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ah, ah, an influx of thousands of migrants has paused a diplomatic route between morocco in spain and res. concern about the faith of those streaming in from north africa into the usa. so why are these people taking this risk route and how does it affect migration across europe? this is inside the door. ah, hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim, jim. many migrants using ding ease have often made the dangerous journey from
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morocco into spain. but this week, an influx of at least 8000 people was unusually high, threatening a humanitarian crisis. many were young men, but there were also families and unaccompanied miners. at least one person died, making the crossing thousands have been expelled by the spanish authorities. campaigners worried the migrants rights have been violated during what they described as a rapid pace of expulsions. the number of arrivals has now dropped in what appears to be an attempt by moroccan authorities to tighten border controls. police scuffled with people as they tried to force their way into the spanish enclave of se utah. the event has caused a diplomatic route between the 2 countries. we'll get to that in a moment, but 1st, let's hear one voice story. what do you want to appearance on able to work? the education system is very weak. what can i say? people don't have much to 8. my parents thought that if i came here i could have a future over and morocco, even with a diploma. it is like you have nothing on cold. well, i wanted some clothes,
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i don't have any time. so why has say you to become a flash point in all of this? the tiny enclave is found right here on the african side of the strait of gibraltar . it's one of 2 spanish territories on mainland africa, despite fences and strict policing thousands attempt across from morocco and to say you to every year. the spanish government has accused morocco of being responsible for the influx of migrants. and it's threatened to use force to stop people entering the president of say, to call the influx. an invasion morocco is denied dad, and recall it's ambassador from madrid. bart is reported to have been angered after spain allowed in the head of the policy mario front ibrahim, highly for medical treatment. last month. the policy mario front and morocco are technically still at war over the western sahara. a former spanish colony in north africa. it's been under the ball control since 1975. and morocco continues to claim the enclave if say you to and mila. on wednesday,
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spain's high court summons holly over alleged war crimes. but he refused to acknowledge. ah, all right, let's bring our guests in brussels. catherine willard is secretary general of european council on refugees and exiles in madrid. ruth guerrero is lecturer in political science and senior researcher at competence. the university of madrid in about less than had that is strategic affairs analysts and former moroccan minister, a warm welcome to you all, catherine. let me start with you today. so more than $8000.00 migrants arrived on the beaches. so you to, in just a couple of days, how does this sudden and very large rival compare to movements of migrants in the past few years. and has there ever in the past been an arrival at one time of this magnitude? with the same similar arrivals and in other parts of europe, and this is due to the record numbers of people who have possibly displaced. so
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globally, there are more refugees and the big before in the majority, both arriving in europe on refugees. there's also people who are close to me for other reasons. we were by the old countries in europe to respect to you and it's national law when faced with these, the rivals of people. and despite the dramatic things, the overall numbers of people arriving are manageable. i think what we see here is also the risk of relying on other countries such as morocco, such as per k, to try to prevent people from coming to europe. and that creates the risk that we see in an unrelated bit against the dentist. you said right, they described that people are instrumental. i used to the few and roof spain's foreign minister. our answer gonzales lie has said that spain believes morocco loosened its border controls in retaliation for spain. having given medical
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assistance to the policy mario front had brought him valley from your vantage point, do you think that this was a retaliatory move by morocco? i believe that this is the queue for for morocco to open the gates for 48 hours. i think there is some more deeply political concerns on the moral side which are linked with the recognition of the united states. so there are prompts to recognize the sovereignty of moral over the har, probably of her 2 or 3. so then the, the said bear song in the health we tell you it has been yes and ask you to, to, to over react with the sick. i know my colleagues. yes. that to mental life. people to, to rate political goals. and morocco had warned of consequences for
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harboring. but our human holly is this. what morocco meant? are we and are we hearing more from morocco and officials about all this? i don't think that is an instrument til ization on or a weapon ization of migration on the part of morocco. the majority of those will have cross have returned about 5000 return. that migration he was numbers has always existed between the 2 countries. and i think there was collaboration between the 2. but the fact that it happened in the wake of diplomatic tensions that led to a lot of interpretation like the black male in the morocco and. and but what he's interested in is that the, the moroccan spanish crisis that exists the, the last weeks the dispatcher has been pretending that they have the victims of crisis. what they are responsible for or the best they shouldn't have done. what i've done. i mean,
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like i mentioned somebody who has used the word criminal and been, i mean like somebody who committed like genocide kind of rhymes and who has been at war with moran, who acts on the behalf of jerry up to the territorial integrity of morocco. and he's requested by the spanish justice system, that's something that he's not understanding, but at all, even the spanish people don't understand how the spanish government to do that. and not only do they do that, but they do it with the complicity of anteria. and he was proud with a false during last fortune, the name of will mohammed been but to which in a hospital and they were expecting that the moroccans secret services would not know that. so that's a little bit like naive. so there was like a mismanagement on the part of the spanish governments and they haven't not to the mirage. and like, what is the intelligence of the strategy? why is it like geopolitically found? how would you do that with a partner?
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i mean like, and with, with, with whom you have a lot of interest like morocco. that's something that is mind boggling. and i think what happened in terms of the migration to mass migration. and so i just added that exacerbated than already kind of 10 diplomats relation between the spanish and, and the morocco. and, and i think these kinds of things happen, but i believe that this happened this moment. and it's, it's unfortunate, but also i think he does not mean that the, the more i can government has used the moroccan government. probably i'm, i've been in the governments. we don't have like, i mean like something to push. and then you have thousands of people who are great, but i think there is, there is, there is an executive situation in the north of morocco whereby the cannot make livelihood of a lot of people have been diminished because of the closer, closer to the border with with so 10000000 and the 2nd one is that the and then make made like, i'm sorry to interrupt you. let me,
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let me get back to you on that point that you're making about the panoramic. and in just a couple of moments, i do want to follow up with you on that, catherine. i saw you nodding to some of what i was saying there. it looked like you wanted to jump in, please go ahead. yes, i think it's the complex situation. there are multiple reasons why people move money y'all for to, to move to king economic concerns, but also wall conflict and so on. and i think from the side underlying this recent thing to dentist, european strategy of relying on other countries to try to prevent people coming to europe. and we would suggest instead, a longer term, more new on strategy on the past with europe. so that would invoke, for instance, re legal rates for migration, so that there isn't humanitarian crisis and bring weight by weight, the mediterranean and not mean legal rates for people who are thinking, assigned them. but like for people who want to come to europe to work which is much
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needed. and in the last 20 years saying that an ever increasing reduction in the opportunities, the legal migration into europe. so i think those a ways to deal with this in addition, we would suggest the more collective approach find europe. so that the country for the right, i'm not left alone and changing this paper sharing quality within europe. i would also that we ignore the history and all of these claims to the cause of europe's colonial legacy in africa. i'd much rather longer vote because their enclaves on another continent. so that doesn't justify the actions of the government, but all the front to have to be taken into account rather than a knee jerk reaction, which is simply to build fences to prevent people moving. ruth, so we've been talking
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a bit about how brian valley and his treatment in spain has really been sort of at the center of this diplomatic dispute between spain and morocco. it's been reported that spain's high court served valley with a june 1st summons for a preliminary hearing in a war crimes case against him. and that this is potentially the 1st step towards a trial for the policy mario front leader. do you think that we will see valley in a court in spain, in the near future? i don't have the day that they will appear on the, on the hook or, but let me, let me contextualize the whole thing and why i mention that, i think the, the issue is yes, an excuse made by the moral con, governments in march a was there was a diplomatic company, those that were between a robot and your money. they even didn't open any,
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any communication with your money buffer door. and this is inside of have you bigger negotiation. and we are expecting a new sentence coming from look simberg in a court of justice, european european court of justice by weights. apparently the agreement rates between them. oracle and the european union association. fisheries will be laid down so that, that, that the suspension of the agreement will be limited to make the morocco authority on the territory of western sahara. so we have to, to reach some to focus on to frame the whole situation in a bigger, bigger picture with it, including these issues on serenity, issues on your policy is issues on trade and also try and it's coming on the,
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on the, the pushing off of moral call, trying to to make change position. so there's a western sahara region by the european union. so i think we have to analyze it in the, in the whole, in the whole frame on the list. on the other hand, i'm totally agree with the issues that catherine is. mention my scene, we have to so i so forth, 100 percent, what she was just say like we are leaving, living our, our migration policy and the hon. so known democratic like turkey or even moral co this is another way we have to change radically the migration go around of the european union and the member states also, and all of our sites. so we can not, it paid off all these black males that had been doing these countries like talkie did last year on the grease course,
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or was the moral boys doing right now because they wanted to wait political goals through using people for people with also of course there are affected about them. yeah. and on this and then, you know, if you want on the socio calling, making fact of these and also because a lot of these guys and women and child that were crossing by, they used to be working in failed. and so things they board that were close were all the time they really would need because they are not very perfect. let me, let me do a quick creep is the same route that they thought is over and doing. so the root, i'm sorry to interrupt you, let me, let me just go over to last and right now because i interrupted you before you were making a point about some of the underlying causes the migration, you know, from your vantage point. and you were starting to talk about the pandemic is one of them please go ahead. no, just, just to respond to a router has just said, i don't think. i mean like that has been
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a lot of spanish also coming to morocco and because they come legally, then there was no, no, no problem with them. so i agree with catherine that legal kind of migration should be the issue to these kinds of situation. and there is much need for labor in europe, but for example, less than about $20000.00 spanish people who came tomorrow after the financial crisis and the out of there because, i mean, there was no, there is no hurdles for that. but i mean, the other thing, i mean like root says, the democratic and on the countries number, but i'm wondering if the democratic governments like the spanish government who hosts war criminal that, that's a lot about like what kind of democracy we're talking about here. but anyway, i mean like with, with regard to black mailing the moroccans, when i talked to them, i talked to the more up no fish. and they said, well look, what the spanish want us to be is to be listed on the bottom of the legal migration . they want us to be loyal partners in the fight terrors. they want us to be good, they cannot make partners. they want us to be and the spending to colonial
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situation whereby so malaria are colonized by spain, but still the more i need to probably like stick it easy with their got to that at the same time when that is a problem, they need to be silent. otherwise, the spanish, you know, what they will tell you, they will tell you are blake black, meaning that you're using migration, you are using terrorism in order to like may last in order to make concessions. i don't think this is partnership. as far as i'm concerned, i mean have been having them like a lot of other things. i mean, we've got to that, but i mean let's, let's go back to what are the roots of this kind of last, and i'm sorry, again, just, just to just let me, i'll get right back to you. i saw ruth there, raise her hand, wanted to respond to something you said, so i wanted to let her go. ruth, just please keep it brief so i can get back to less than that. i need to ask captain another question please. yes, yes, that's the mention i'm not an official from the spanish government. probably i'm, i agree with my colleague in here, but this is not the point where are discussing right now. we're discussing why the
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governmental authorities just open up the board there for the in between moral and say, with emily and say they hadn't be any explanation about it coming from the moral government. there is no cost effect in anything that us. yes, it that explains why the agreement that has been raised between the european union because we can not forget the, this is the border of the european union with dealt with a 3rd country, which in this case is moral go, has been not accomplish. and had they had just lay down and opened the gate and let this be going through the through the waters. alright, last and please go ahead if you want to respond to, you know, just yeah, i mean, we can, we can go back to this point that the route has raised. well let's, let's go back to the reasons. one of the reasons is like the idea of a fortress, europe that has really like walls and all of that prevention,
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all the people from coming there. i don't think that has borne any kind of routine kinds of problem. so agree with catherine, but we need to go into legal issues and allowing this kind of migration to happening better legal matter. the 2nd thing is like because of the colonial situation in, so 10000000 then and also a lot of, i mean like what has been happening is lot of contraband coming from. so that 1000000 hurts in the moroccan economy. the moroccans closed the borders like nomic kind of interaction that meant that the lot of livelihoods up into a lot of morocco have been hurt and then makes, have added to that. so i think these kinds of issues are what needs to be discussed . i don't think people have proof that the moroccans up opened the gates and as i have said before, more i can, i don't have these kinds of gates full of people and then some time the open them and this warm to so to, and really i don't think that's, that's really credible and piece on the ground would see that one of them themselves. but this is, this exist in the spanish imagination a lot,
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but more awkward only that harboring like thousands of people. and at any moment that there was abroad with the spanish and the let those go, i don't think that that's the situation. i think that is a very important nomic situation. socio economic situation that needs to be dealt with there is a problem of livelihoods. there is a problem, problems of perception upon the door either on the other side and then also like policy problems with regards to europe union when it comes to migration, even these things are not addressed, but we'll have these kinds of situations. and we'll, we'll have, like all kinds of instrumental ization of defense, which, catherine, let me ask you this. so rights groups have been warning that the fact that these migrants have been returned to morocco as quickly as they have that that could mean that migrant rights are being violated. they said that there hasn't been enough time to carry out examinations of individual circumstances that migrants may not have had a chance to apply for asylum or to make other types of claims. do you believe that
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what we've seen play out over these past few days, the rapid expulsion, no matter if there's an agreement between the 2 countries? but do you believe that this rapid expulsion of these migrants is a violation of either european law international human rights law or refugee will it's possible that violations are taking place that we've joined the call of expressing concern about the situation. and we were done denying that people arriving in any remember state or even be that report, or if you, any you member states under the jurisdiction of that country this me. but you will find a more applies and also international law under the european mentioned human rights international refugee. so as situation where people are being collectively expelled without individual assessment is a situation that the legal under both your under national law and inspect the
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should be an individualized assessment. and indeed the standards and legal obligations when it comes to the reception of people arriving. so there may be issues, concerns with access to refine them. and then in terms of the treatment of people where they have obligations to respect the reflection condition directive and procedural obligations. and these are complex situation because they may be rescued genes on people with other kinds of status. but the way to determine what is the appropriate path for somebody to do the individual assessment. and on that basis, it can be determined if the person has protection needs, as many people arriving in europe under the refugee convention, or under a subsidiary protection due to playing who conflict. for example, ruth, i saw you nodding to someone. catherine was saying, so i'm going to give you a chance to jump in, but i also want to ask you,
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do we have any idea what exactly is happening to the unaccompanied miners who have arrived in say you to are, are they being sent back as well? because as i understand that what i've read spanish law dictates that these unaccompanied miners must remain in spanish territory until there is a further investigation and determination about their status. correct? yes, that's correct. so whatever with catherine, this is happening be lation of not just think they're national low. so embrace would you also have your lation of the norms on the sentence years made by the human rights and the court of work and also like to go or of just the same thing that had made us present a sentence on the last december saying that the they have be theaters to be accomplished in the way in which be the patients are there with you still being on
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on the board of di now clearly bill lading those those sentences so so salary with catherine on the minor. no, not compile minor. where they can not be deported, that's all a should be responsive and to be able to number region on the, on the estate to take care of them. and i gave them appropriations for taking care and social services, etc, until they're all they're done than 80 or 80 years. busy old, we have to see now, and i guess the next few days how the before and no one on the community is going to be offering a place these and their territories. because of course, those, those, the boys and girls cannot remaining. so with that because there are a lot of them, and it's not a possibility for them to remain in the india in this field. the main problem is
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that because the science of florida harden the following the law, some of those child has been before they are ready. so we have to, we have to follow up and see what's happened. on the other hand, there's been some, some curious movements on the board there. i guess our, our, our colleague from oracle can come tell us about it because a lot of them, a big proportion of them. the big guys were entering devora there's they go out of the board this by their foot. so they weren't forced to do it. no. yeah. my know, but also all those other people. so it's kind of suspicious that they were like going on a scholarship and then going out, but i really, i don't know what's going on on there, but so maybe maybe our moral can colleague can, can help us with that. well,
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we just run out of time, so we're going to hastily the discussion here, but i want to thank all of the guests today, catherine willard, ruth ferrero and last and had died. and thank you to for watching you see this program again, any time by visiting our website 0 dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also, during the conversation on twitter or handle is at a inside story for me, how much jerome and a whole team here, bye for now, the news news, news, news, news. covert 19 has compounded the homelessness
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crisis and abandoned impoverished families of force and radical jane. he decided to say, hey, we're going to spend the human rights by claiming property left vacant by the state . the 1st thing i did was i change my duty and my daughter's faith, that means breaking the law that i'm willing to do that for shelter in place and a fight for housing on alger 0, a life and death struggle for racial equality in a deeply unequal society unfortunately, that was fine for the apartheid regime within that group. they've been very close friends like a family living together over 50 years after his torture and death in police custody of jesse a world tells the remarkable story of anti apartheid campaigner in them on the south africa, the man fought apartheid on a jazz one day. i might be covering politics you might hear,
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i think from serbia is a hungry for what's most important to me is talking to people understanding what they are going for so that i could convey the headlines in the most human way possible. here it is, either we believe everyone has a story worth hearing. ah, the jubilant seems, it goes across to the territory. as a sci fi takes effect after 11 days of conflict, ah, hello adrian. so again, this is a life and go home with extensive coverage of the c.

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