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me ok today on the street real life events the used in video games how you react to that question really influence how you watch today's show we are going to be looking at a controversial video game that's based on a very controversial war take a look at 6 days if a loser. well prepared city buttressed waiting for us to go all the way to the city this is every house you have to search every room and you have to rule out every insurgent. 3rd of my retirement. it was the bloggers
that would build the site out since. you were going out to be our client and then they would open up or need to. kick down the door and there's a sense really. the only fellow if you survive. so in that game 6 days in food or was originally to be released in 2009 the criticism shut down it is that this power is being developed but should it be your thoughts you chip away jump into the comic section and you can talk to i guess
let's say hello to the guests hello to yes seen hello to rami hello to rebecca essien tell everybody what you think welcome to the streaming. thank you for heaven as my name is the c.n.n. commonly known as norse. the founder of rockefeller and you know the medium based out of montreal canada and i am a proud iraqi to have you around me welcome to the stream tell everybody what you can rely on this wine i'm up after egyptian game developer i'm also an industry ambassador focuses on under-represented fuel points and much less people nice to have you had iraqi television for you what a day i reckon valentine video game journalist i reporter currently working with i.g.n. with a background in specifically business journalism and how games get me good to have you all right let's start by immediately yes seen you were watching that trailer shaking your head why. i mean you know for the last 20 years of my
life but let's say for the last 30 years in the gaming industry games about it i have come out and dehumanised the life and commodified iraqi death and this was just you know the sort of the tip of the iceberg for me to be in the position that i'm in and have access to social media a group of friends of mine in their iraqi community who are also creatives and gamers i'm by no i'm not in the gaming industry i'm more in the music and film industry we came together to start a petition against this game coming out as you mentioned it was cancelled before for the similar reasons and. you know there are games that are based on the parity of reality or games that are based on artificial cities but this game itself is based on a true conflict that occurred in the world and people die due to it you know many many families were displaced due to it as well as soldiers they came back from that with incredible levels of p.t.s.d. so this is not a game you know hash tag is iraq is not
a video game this shouldn't exist and it shouldn't be something that people play 'd to trivialize. a real life event it's a toxic imperialist perspective that has continued and been present in media for as long as i've lived and we've just we've had enough enough is enough i wouldn't know what i think is really what is really striking about this game in a think a reason a lot of people see it as as different is that everything you're seeing said is true so far the games industry at large has had their worst i don't want to call the respect but the decency to at least create district tional arab country and it's this mix of stereotypes this mix of the human is ation where they can even set the games in the real countries but in a way when you're talking about something as traumatic and as devastating as war or this fake we call it a rob a stunt like in the industry is actually sort of a boon because at least it's not even those do human eyes and even though it's offensive it's not directly touching any real people that died right this exclusive
falutin very explicitly says this is about a real city and then. they exceed the market is ready we're going to talk about the history of this conflict great that's what they're seeing the reality is they're not doing that it's the same old same old it's about american heroes going to an arab country and bringing freedom and liberty and then talk about how sad it made their soldiers. that that's how you know to be let's have a look at the web site rebecca to come straight to you but this is what the website everybody can follow along at home 6 days dot com 6 days in fallujah is a video game about the real experiences will mean soldiers and iraqi civilians for al-qaeda during the 2nd battle for loser in 2004 and look at this this is interesting when we originally and out 6 days in from in 2009 we learned that some people believe that he again shouldn't tackle real life events to these people video games seem more like toys than the medium capable of communicating something
full we disagree yes seen i see you i hear you all the cameras are with the website . i disagree yet again this game is told from the perspective of the occupier it's told from the perspective of the oppressor right it's not you know when you're going to see iraqis in this game i can almost guarantee you there actually is in this game are going to be translators that run around like like you know parrots to the american soldiers and tell them where the people are hidden in order for them to get them there's no empowerment of iraqis in this game or a positive representation of iraqis it's not in the trailer it's not going to be in the game and this is just another selling point for them and i totally disagree i don't think it is let me let me let me let me let rebecca to get into this because rebecca this is some of the you think covering this control of a saint and and the fact that they can come back almost like it's a phoenix like risen from the ashes how did that happen. there's
a lot to unpack there and i i mean i think you've seen and rami definitely had it so that you know and as you said i have been reporting on this at school. various folks who are part of the arab game deaf community you know folks with various ties to other through what it's through family or culture or you know anything else and yet kind of a common criticism and concern from those people is that this is specifically being told from a very explicitly u.s. militarist it perspective and that criticism stems from the fact that when when this game was 1st announced back in 2009 it was being developed by a studio called atomic games it was being published by konami and atomic games is being run by someone who is that the concept behind this game came from people who were making simulators for at the u.s. military training centers and it was inspired by ideas that you know marines that they were working with have has these connections to the u.s.
military and they have said you know they have made public statements now that there is no connection the u.s. government is not funding it in any way but that is still where you know we're gardasil whether that's true or not that's still where the seed of the idea came from and that was one really big criticism is that you know regardless you know it's claiming to tell this very the what it says is a true story you know an accurate representation of how things were in fallujah but you know it's doing that while having you know it at its deepest roots that this tie to a government that you know people are concerned has reasons to skew the story in a very significant way. i think it's not just that it's also in terms of what the game is doing it's doing nothing new right it's a game about us soldiers going into a country and shooting things only this time it's really like the 1st time the game was council you have to imagine this game wasn't necessarily counseled by arabs who had a fleece we didn't have a voice and we don't have
a voice back now we don't have a voice right now what you have seen is doing is the largest opposition we can muster to this game. the reality is that the game was canceled because the veterans opposed to it. the game wisconsin because people that fought the war opposed another people who were victims they never get us there never took up the oh i just i think your support so i got one less there's no i just want to supplement romney's point really i think it was it was canceled back then because konami the publisher which is a primarily a japanese publisher saw the opposition to the game and they pulled funding and they refused to publish it after the opposition now it is sort of risen again with a new publisher that is run by the person who wanted to make the game in the 1st place so i want to push us on because well so much to talk about and it's extraordinary that it's a video game that's got us talking about it but here we are this is who i'm on a romana is talking about. as that bell sells for
a video game yes and respond off the back of this forthcoming. when we talk about the war in volusia we're talking about something that is very real and her ific the demonization of muslims that confines us to an extremist narrative in mainstream media is nothing new and consequently people have become immune in the sense of taste to killing especially the killing of muslims can they do games through the true cost of human war they absolutely can because games by their very nature a low people to inhabit another person's subjectivity and empathize with their perspective however in the case of sixty's in fallujah it's engendering sympathy with an event that resulted in the murder of innocent iraqi civilians and was don't write the boran so we talk about the human cost of war and yet we repeatedly feign that it's trivialize and order for it or a natural lens that washes ashore cities that were committed. go ahead at this point i'm going to show
a petition that you're very much involved in stop high a lot of games and victoria from normalizing and mass murder of iraqis you're saying go ahead. let us not allowed ourselves and spin this into just being a video game this stems from the. the lack of accountability for america's role in the war in iraq in an unjust war that was built on a lie 1st of all where over a 1000000 people died that's one secondly they released the trailer of this game on the week of the 18th anniversary of that invasion and that's insult to injury that's not a mistake let's not be such rick ourselves and think that's coincidence there's no such thing as coincidence so i'm sorry they want to paint it however they want to pay to and they want to spin it in the media just as they've been trained and just as rebecca mentioned you know the very least devon the head of victor studios who is peter tattoo was involved in the making of game design for soldiers to train for
war so don't tell me that the template wasn't there for him to create this game it's all just you know they didn't even want to come on this show so i'm a card about the body workout routine i have faith that they're not here on the show to the paint with you but they did send a statement. you can debate with a statement all right so i've got a little bit of a quote here we're going to from the sop and this is what the tour a saying while fewer than 15 percent of young people in western nations a familiar with the battles for fallujah more than 150000000 people military shooter last year we. are powerful way to put it well it's about important topics to many more people that's what facts or have a saying that's what they sent us to the stream ramey you say i'm a game developer right like i believe in the power of video games and i believe in the power of video games to communicate very difficult topics war has been tackled by a polish game studio in this worst mining incredible game about being
a civilian in a war zone german developers of games like spec ops the line about the trauma of being an aggressor in a war this is not that what they're doing is they're not bringing knowledge what they're doing is they're removing all it's historical revisionism the fact that they say that this is a word. again. there was just starting to appear in the city as a result largely of u.s. actions in the region but that's left out that's revisionism leaving out war crimes because they couldn't find they say they've interviewed these 26 iraqis to get their perspective right but they also say that there was just between these 26 iraqis they didn't find anybody who could tell them about war crimes and that's why they're not in the game how did you feel to these iraqis then because every iraqi that i talk to from fallujah could tell me about things that happened tell me about the crimes that happened that can tell me about the the things the awful things that happened in that city somehow this game randomly found 26 iraqis that just know nothing about that i haven't heard anything that's that is and also any source
like. yes about have. it it seems like they they seem to be preempted it with this common and then also with the statement you showed on the website earlier they seem to be preempting an argument that oh well the present as if people are saying that video games cannot portray serious events or video games can't their toys they can't be taken seriously none of the people that i've spoken to are arguing that you know you know i spoke i spoke to game developers they spoke to people who you know worked on things that are very you know emotional and moving and you know talk about you know real life experiences what what i what i understand people are asking is that you know people who make these things do so you know with consideration and care and responsibility for the subjects they're talking as a government is i want to put some of the you cheap comments to them because this conversation is split people are watching you seen and they're split they can't decide which way they forward on this debate let me put this to you this is from county reenactments of real life i that's meant to be
a form of entertainment should be reasonably found that handle that one just very briefly i mean i think it's a challenging topic right i think it depends on who is making it and what they're what they're making and what they're trying to say and how they're thinking about the issue and i think that i think in the people that i spoke to you know all pretty much universally said you know volusia the 2nd battle of loser is as a result of that that has then that still has you know many people who are suffering from the after effects to this day and it is it is being it is it has already been the target of so much as as romney said you know revisionist history and now we have a group of people with a clear stake in telling a very specific perspective on that story who are trying to turn it into a video game and you know if you criticize them then you're saying video games are toys and can't tell serious stories that let me bring in some more you change everybody who wants to told to or if you guess quick to marianne i feel like games like this fuel racism i feel very uncomfortable with this yes seen. i think it's
beyond racism it's the continuation of the american military industrial complex it's the. and the dehumanization of brown and black and iraqi people and ask them from the same place it all stems from an imperialist conquest of the world so at the end of the day if you want to go that deep we can get into colonization but i think in this specific case the reason we started this petition was because this didn't happen too long ago there was no justifiable reason to enter iraq in the 1st place and for you to create a video game and process us that death is an issue at the end of the day peter turned in a reasonably good say they get so they can say whatever they want but it and he says you know there's a quote from him where he says we're not asking players to commit atrocities in the game are we effect of lee sanitizing offense events by not doing that as a matter of fact you are sanitizing them by letting people control the real life
event in a video game where civilians died while you were fighting your enemy so robby o'clock at night can i share this with because your game developer and we spoke to another game developer about maybe the focus of a lot of these games and video games that are revolving around fighting and war the focus is in the wrong place it's very western focused this is what malachi is suggesting let's have a look at have a listen. i think quite frankly there's plenty of other shooters out there that kind of cover the soldier's story and do it quite well and to varying degrees and i just feel that. as a game playing myself the games that i own are actually probably more important or more interesting quite frankly tell the story of the people the ground you know how what where does war mean for suppresive being an innocent member of the human race who is going out by the day and they're affected by war to me that's a much more interesting story to be explored and it's a shame that the sixty's infusion does not appear to focus on once that the thing
the thing you have to understand about 6 days in fallujah is that it didn't have to be this way 6 days in fallujah could have been an incredible document an incredible doctrine of the war showing the perspective of the people the of the americans that invaded the country this if anyone's that lived in the city the people that far in the city you could have that you can make this a document that could show you the viewpoints and make you understand each of the sides of the story history not read and that's what is going wild so i mention this war of mine which is an incredible example of a game that is about the civilian side of war and it shows very powerful you that you can absolutely tell that story now by making this a 1st person shooter only they know you can only represent the people with the guns and then if you only represent the people of the guns you know they end up making a shooter the question i have about this game is the entire marketing is sort of built around this one moment of 2 u.s.
soldiers at a door and they're going to open the door and they don't know what's behind the door and has repeatedly referred to that is that sort of like the emotional crux of the game that tension to the point that they want to deliver that feeling so much that they are not actually depicting fallujah and the game know they're but in fallujah together like lego blocks randomly it's not the real city and these are not the real people they've turned us into computer code that randomly shuffles. together and randomly shuffled that's how important us perspective is to him what i might do why don't we see the other side of the door because that's way more interesting to me and that's a feature is a feature of the game isco procedural architecture so we play it the it's like oh i've learned the way for you and what you haven't because the architecture changes and then he comes back again to the sometimes meanwhile they have. scanned us soldiers like actual real people who they are directly and their actual true stories into the game but we if they have done that with iraqis who are there we
have not yet seen it that would be much scarier going to play right you being a 7 game play and you do you really really want to house that we have a real trailer does have 2 iraqi civilians at the end very briefly to make a single point in the in like less than a minute in a 6 minute trailer and they have said that you know they include a scenario where you are fleeing the city as an iraqi civilian as well but again when weighed against all of you know the over 100 u.s. soldiers who were interviewed and spent token 2 for this and all of the other you know the very very heavily skewed u.s. perspective. that's the big one i think if again i think i may say if if i may just this point so ironic. this this was an illegal occupation of a country it's not a video game i dare peter to victory or or microsoft sony play station or valve or
steam to address this which they have it they have a responsibility now more than ever the media that we create that we put out into the world that we consume has a role in the way history is told and the way people are. growing up in this world let's see what the world yes some cursed something occurs to me and that is this game is not out yet and we have seen this before people raving on a raged about something that hasn't been seen we have basing this conversation on our ethical conversation should real life events be used game to fight right that's the ethical conversation we could have a conversation but picking apart a game i want to i want to bring in paul here because paul makes a point i'd love you to react to it rummy is the game developer. and play that clip canceling 6 days of food before it even releases it is pretty stifling the
discussion probably because what you're looking at is a situation where people are calling a sense of this game without understanding the developers are claiming. the game is over invoices iraqis they've interviewed 26 iraqi citizens who were. living in the area during the conflict of so if we cancel this game before release is your sense really creating an issue where you're not encouraging discussion around the topic if the game comes out and it happens to be miss misrepresentation of what happened in iraq and deserves every bit of criticism it gets put before it even releases is jumping the gun a little bit. i'm sorry if i get none of that but so too thought 1st thing as a game developer when you make a game you have to start from a place these are these incredibly complex things to make this is not easy you can change course half way through what peter time to says what the focus of the game
is has been set for years games don't get developed in weeks they don't shift direction in weeks was very clear is these 26 voices that they've interviewed clearly are filled right because otherwise these war crimes these missteps these atrocities would have mentioned the 2nd thing is the censorship discussion because i don't get the point this game is intentionally censoring the real life experience of victims of war or people that have died whose families have died if buried their families in a soccer stadium in the city that's being censored by the united states of america by a company with the largest media output in the world with the loudest voice we can censor in america there's no way for us to censor how do we censor citizens in fallujah how is the possible that entire game is censorship i guess the more i have one more for full for just you've got 30 seconds and it says
a very quick thought what should happen to feel stronger baka i mean i don't feel i don't feel super comfortable you know answering for myself i don't have nearly as much of a stake in this as so many other people do but i thought what should happen to i would say that people who are in charge of making this game need to very seriously consider the criticisms that are being thrown at it and that criticisms that move on running right have wonderful sound so it's a rational i mean what happened to this guy in a sentence that the game will come out it will come out there's nothing we can do this should never happen again. i don't buy it and you shouldn't either. yes senior romney rebecca thank you so much for really explaining why 6 days in fallujah being developed as a video game is problematic on so watching everybody each of us that's a scene next time take everybody.
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