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tv   The Stream  Al Jazeera  April 1, 2021 7:30am-8:00am +03

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these young people and they'll tell you the evidence is plain to see in this area in the city. the social equality that. you don't have any place to go to learn how to. show yourself and you cringe. but that is a picture of barely recognized by the government report jonah hall al-jazeera bristol. hello adrian finnegan with you here in doha the headlines and i was here up a court in hong kong this convicted 9 prominent pro-democracy activists taking part in an organized protest in 2019 they include a media tycoon former politicians and a barrister who's considered to be hong kong's father of democracy sarah clarke is at the courthouse in hong kong this is some of the most high profile pro-democracy
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tempos here in hong kong some of the veteran activists are here in hong kong and 7 of those so far have been found guilty you know we spoke to martin lee the father of democracy movement on his way and he said he's prepared to go to jail to fight for democracy and fight for the rights of the freedoms of this former british territory also spoke to leach he's the man who organizes the tiananmen square vigil every year he's a veteran of this particular movement but he said he's prepared to go to jail he's prepared to continue his fight for democracy in general is also prepared we're looking forward to catching up with a number of the other members of the movement who are already behind bars a us court has been shown some of the last moments of george floyd's life from the perspective of the police officers who arrested him floyd could be heard begging them not to shoot him at the offices bodycount footage it was during day 3 of the trial of the former officer who's accused of murdering him. the u.n. special envoy for me has warned that a bloodbath is imminent unless significant moves are made to stop the violence
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briefing the un security council christine tran a burger said that there's also a risk of civil war u.s. border patrol has released a video showing children being literally dropped into the united states by smugglers in the infrared pictures an adult can be seen dangling and then dropping a child from the top of the fence along the us mexico border moments later they drop another france will enter it's the national lockdown this weekend as a grapples with more than 30000 new coronavirus cases a day schools will be closed for 3 weeks of domestic travel is banned for at least a month and those who had lots more news for you here on al-jazeera after the stream next. to. you represent it is now illegitimate as we listen we do not fence material any country to the conflict and yet we meet with global news makers and about the
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stories that matter. but today's program feels a little bit different a new government of national unity has been formed foreign fighters have been given their marching orders and some libyans i feel optimistic have a look at this. you know i did and hope to god that this government is a source of good and unifying libyan's it being a 1st step in building the country we are awaiting the constitution and hopefully becomes as soon as possible before next year's rest of us a lot. of priority is to deal with the needs and
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difficult living conditions of the citizens such as lack of cash flow power cuts and the coronavirus epidemic. i'm very happy that libyans are united and agreed on something we are done with the war there is now room for thought with assignment from the left. is there we need hope for peace in libya that is the topic of the show today you can join in the discussion by jumping into the comments of being part of today's show. how an ass hello how none really get to see you welcome back to the stream good to have you and that's remind our audience who you are and what you do. for them is an asshole good luck to you and the founder and director of the tripoli very subtle construes. good to have you hello hala introduce yourself to oh it's
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a reminder what you do and who you are. and how not to really get to see him on the stream tell our audience who you all what. i am finance and i'm the senior libyan researcher him in rights watch more or less for this hope that this this is real action i want to get this your immediate reaction just for a quick face we're so we can see what your mood is right now is there a new hope for peace in libya was i starting point for the conversation and us. absolutely i think that you know there is a permanent cease fire that is in place every bit of a hold is a day that i live in life and so there is a government of national unity which means that there's a unified cabinet consulted the labor services to look at so i think and that's part of the issues that liberals are for this has been responded to a lot in this optimistic chapter for libya's future but there's still some cautious
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aspects but we have to the kind of deliverance you saw a little bit. so i'm not going to disagree with what you said and that's but i would say that there are some massive challenges still ahead the biggest challenge is really to move libya from utter chaos to a place where there is respect for the rule of law where the functioning traditionally line for cement and where that is there is actually a cost attached to the killing of human beings and that is currently not the case. definitely there is a momentum at the moment to libya as i said there is a cease fire we have seen our stability for at least for a few this film weeks so absolutely it is a momentum for peace on we need to build on that this by the challenge of so a guess one of the things that this new government of national unity did one of the 1st things i did was you foreign fighters you need to get out of the country we asked one of our members of our community we asked them what is it like to be
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living in libya with foreign fighters work based and this is what he told us have a look haven't listened as a person whose entire extended family was this blaze near during those 4 pensive own tripoli. hailing from an area in quickly which would have been mined by one of the last movie i can tell you 1st the amount of misery and we. owe the heart to make sure over the past 18 months particularly the hunt for an interview him. how you only live the of right now what is it like to be living there and there are foreign fighters in the foreign troops in your country i mean it's generally the feeling that you are not safe and you know dead that you know that they're gay so why then stop any time soon and i think this feeling you know you are i
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mean the feeling that you are on a cat any time that things would escalate and the water would stop again is what we're seeing all of that it begins and i think the feeling also knowing that there is that 10. bases in libya we feel that we don't have on the order our own country and this is. this makes us. i mean it's absolutely something that we don't need a lot of could appreciate that we want to change immediately and that's feels like a bolster to say yes to that maybe if i can add something to those i would say that i agree with. really what it was down to is that killing with impunity has been normalized and looking on for many many years a sitting member of parliament can disappear in benghazi and a year and a half later no one knows where she is a lawyer can be gunned down or abducted and nobody will identify the killer so you
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know these are sort of the more systemic issues that libya faces so with the presence or without the presence of foreign fighters i think it has to be accomplished that there are a very large number of fighters that have been operating with impunity in libya so it's more or less 2011 in the different conflicts and the different phases that libya has been to but it has been a situation of total chaos and if there's anyone left any foreign fighters left. i think to the most news in libya this 20000 mostly is good the u.n. can live export reports. it's l.z. that many libyans themselves are tired of fighting fighting and just wars that i would also agree with well hang on has said you know that the crimes that have to the taken place and the very absence of any kind of judicial result hold into account the kind of investigation open and transparent investigation into those intersections kind of tell you that whether it's mostly is there in the fighting or
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militias doing the following or even the groups that call themselves a military doing the fighting if no one is held to account that it doesn't give much of them isn't that if a new conflict is to start again there's a cost that's that so that's that's really where my fear is as well so i have to go with with what we're both had and has said i'm just thinking also what the reaction was to people within libya when when foreign fighters were telling you you need to go one step more a sense of making the country in and in your country men and women feel like you have ownership of your own country again absolutely yes i think this is this is this is exactly what. most of the people we feel that we come how we lost control of the country and we feel somehow most of the libyan feel that they were left left alone even from the international community having all those tubes having all this weapons unguarded nobody held accountable for this so yes there is some
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sort of bitterness if i may say among the again regardless. the u.n. is very little president and ask his last. just very briefly you know one of the major issues with the most news is that whilst you know there are safe 3 countries in particular that have been a bit most recent over the last 18 months turkey has that have been most recent to libya but has been very transparent about its mechanism for the neighboring missouri is that right that the president of turkey has come out and said this there was a parliamentary session to send them over and i think that the libyan foreign minister himself national congress last week when she requests of those most news leave no one is kind of and in the demo in the dark about those most news on the other side there are russian most injuries syrian musters the rules of the neighborhood by russia and you know it out emirates over the last 18 months those countries refuse to acknowledge. that they delivered to me is the former foreign minister that went to moscow only several months ago requested his counterpart
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sergey lavrov to remove those messages and he said don't know which ones are talking about so there's a real issue here with even just the basic truth about who is in the country who is fighting in the country and if you can't even acknowledge that you have delivered messages i mean the u.s. africa command has already had a little bit images of them reuters news was delivering images of them in may 2020 but he york times reported on them everyone knows who is there apart from the very governments that delivering them so it's this aspect of not even being able to kind of tell the very basic aspect of the truth and if that's what they're that it really tells you how much can the libyan government a new fragile government do to push them out beyond rhetoric this is going to need the international community to kind of take control and force them out or use the climate of measures to force them out but i guess i'm sure my other my other. colleagues are better but i did them myself but it's a real head scratcher on this one was solid. but i mean building on what you say. especially regarding the fact that you know all these foreign governments and other
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foreign entities as you rightly mentioned be it private motor companies etc that are active in the libya context that makes it very very complicated we have not yet seen really massive change or exchange really on the ground so this will remain cheap rhetoric this will remain sort of you know call that you know everything's ok now and you have foreign ministers such as the german foreign minister saying that you know look you have as a diplomatic success how can you say that a country that has just come out of a major armed conflict where the population really is reeling from that conflict with serious matters placement civilian casualties disappearances landmines that are killing and maiming civilians and destruction of vital infrastructure where you know during a pandemic where hundreds remain missing how can you say that that is a diplomatic success when you know you have a security council members who are actively blocking the sanctioning of anyone who
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has unlawfully and against the arms embargo or delivered weapons to libya including fighters so this is where the crux of the problem really lies yes if i may that your conversation is inspiring some conversation each of us and questions for you so let me just ask this of you. because. king is asking is it just that every european country wants the oil and so they're sending their troops and russia king is trying to work out what other troops doing in level. i think it's really simplifying the. issue you're seeing you could think that they're only at the oriel. absolutely more than that i mean yes all is a big sheryl. i mean has it's part of the problem and of course nobody would send
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their troops or do ugly without having something in return but also libya has a very strategic position in india manipulate any and it can be used as you know a power of bargaining to do some of these you know a country which was interfering in libya and i think just you know simplifying it only or all it's not giving god picture i think also the location also the problem i mean it is the goodwill between africa and europe or instance and some some countries are really using this as a car or a bag or what a better position i think and that's maybe can give more insight on the show and alice can i just give you one more year to question just a builder or hello a say mixi says libya is by essence no longer a sovereign state since the west invaded once the west invade is space is as usual everything is for sale and are scared. so actually the east that invaded lost them
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in russia was considered eastern and the u.a.e. is the east i mean these are the 2 countries that lead the offensive now for the last several years what the west did to its discredit was to destroy the very the very bickel that lameduck global vehicle that we were lying on to maintain peace and order the u.n. security council has stopped it from using its vital security council resolutions and just blocked them blocked them to give a very old man said if i have the ability to wage a war and also has allies in the u.a.e. russia and france russia and france being 2 members of the u.n. security council the ability to continue that war undeterred facing no condemnation and i sanction i would go into what hell i was selling at iran which is that ultimately libya is battle is almost like the great game if you look at afghanistan over the 19th century this great game for a battle of influence interest and ideology some countries in libya and simple and short some are playing chess some are playing checkers checkers meaning that they
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have very binary options some coming for economic interests turkey russia certainly turkey when it comes to its economic and maritime an interest in libya trying to get oil and natural gas out of the east the mediterranean from the ocean and really rewriting the maritime boundaries between libya and turkey. egypt you could argue is also it was an aspect you could say that even russia has certain particular aspects there but i would also say that it's kind of playing chess is this just reject ambition because libya's place in the words being a nato southern flank nato being a hugely important military body a trans national coalition it's forcing and making fissures between 2 countries turkey and france who support various sides within one civil tone as does the result make body not fall in with it like does that make the people of libya the pawns in this game of absolute right sacrificial bones let's just talk about the people of libya and i want you to listen to this comment comes from another one that was based in benghazi have
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a sense of what she has to say and the media come off the back of it he said that in benghazi the every day life to be his plan to pay for fundamental crises to cash and put it in crisis which created financial problems for every to be homeschooled the interesting question is which made power cuts and blackout a common occurrence in the country the housing crisis which made medical services very hard to create and this was further exacerbated by the by the need and finally the security crisis which need to be unsafe and vulnerable to human rights abuses. i think hand raises start of the key issues that have been plaguing libyan civilians in different parts of the country for a very long time i mean in most parts of the country really it started with 2014 when this big company started. their bets and i think you know the issue is specifically with regards to the tendencies and the public services and the decimated health care system and economics and so on all of these issues are really
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tied to the very core issue of central authority which has been decimated and has broken down and is longer there and from my point of view unless there is a strong you know situation where you have a functioning digital system where you have law enforcement that is functioning where you have criminal investigation departments that are functioning where courts are functioning at full capacity and are able to adjudicate fairly unless you have a situation like that there will be impunity and if there isn't punitive there isn't going to be at every level impunity at the level of the financial markets means frog it means that large amounts of cash in the form of letters of credit or otherwise are being allegedly or reportedly taken or stolen by for the purpose of the war for example it also means that any kind of subsidies that go into the health sector that go into and you have the other sector are
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pocketed by people so really what you really need is to what i said in my initial remarks is to move the country into into a rule of law respecting country. i'm thinking about the ceasefire how is the seesaw holding up the ceasefire day. so far it is holding there was recently of the. corps a committee ceasefire monocle a committee from their un security council. but in my opinion it is fragile it's still i mean the cease fire agreement has so many provisions within it are not able to have i mean like opening the road the coastal road between the east and west it's been weeks now or maybe 2 months that they are trying to reach an agreement on this but they didn't steal the comic is responsible in this still
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didn't reach an agreement and beside you know stopping the actual military acts in the country nothing further has happened in this. i mean thing in executing this agreement so that's why in my opinion it is our jives of our can be provoked into nascar has. yeah i think i agree with that it's so fragile but i also say that through the negotiation into the g.n. you this new government of national unity that they were able to achieve that the libyan national army had about those forces that attacked tripoli were probably able to take out more through negotiations than they were to take out of the war they had a president or the head of the presidential council that is more amenable to the side that they based in eastern libya from eastern libya he went to go and visit after his 1st actors as the newly appointed president they also have a number of seats within this new cabinet government the final aspect and i think this is goes back to where libya is a decade after the arab spring
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a decade after the revolutions that led to the demise of gadhafi 10 years ago this aspect which is really the political culture of the country whether libya will become a civilian state democratic states or whether return back to military rule to become an authoritarian state that is still up for grabs the very same actors that work alongside after his but his are his partner an ally in arms i get a solid he still controls and is still considered to be the supreme commander of the armed forces it didn't pass a constitutional amendment last month so there's been a transfer of prestige from some government in the east some government in the west to a unified government but there hasn't been a transfer of power without that transfer of power there's a serious dilemma because the armed forces in a sleep after the launched an offensive 18 months ago i don't accountable to this new g.m. you they can't be altered or restructured according to the g. and you and they could start a new war and there would be no legislative mechanism to stop it so i think there's a real serious dilemma that is going on and at the heart of it is the decision about what kind of state libya will look like in the midst of 10 years since the
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arab spring. can i just add to that that i think since you mentioned the you know the ceasefire that is holding and that is a positive thing it is absolutely a positive thing for us elements but a lot more has to happen between now and december when national elections are supposed to take place then a cease fire holding can you imagine under the circumstances today you know holding elections so basically you know i think that you know while it's absolutely great that the ceasefire has been holding but the warlords and the war criminals who have been ruling the scene since at least 2014 i could go back to earlier times but let's say since at least 2014 are still very running among civilians and are still able to regroup and are still able to launch their. attacks and this is by no means conditions that are conducive to hold free and fair elections such as those
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that are supposed to happen towards the end of the are. you going to elect you go to elect your prime minister you don't go to elect your military unless the u.n. fix this area this is the unification of the military is the one of the militias on the west and in the east of the country in the south and let's go to hopefully a really seriously there's no chance in hell that libya will transition to democracy if you don't have a neutral subservient military then you're not living in a democracy then you've got the world i want to play this to you how this is how sheriff who is thinking forward thinking optimistic about what may be possible for libya have that have a lesson. after multiple wars political chaos and extreme violence libya can still find peace the question as how can we as libyans build peace libya needs to have its own nation why peace process that includes everyone and it does not exclude anyone that will this process must also include
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a nationwide reconsolidation process because after war is in conflict we as libyan we need to speak to one another through dialogues and most importantly such peace process must be driven and led by libya's best and greatest assets which are women and young people. maybe that's the missing link quite well we mean. by low part of the conversation maybe that will bring peace to live or maybe women will bring peace to the war. well i think 1st. yes absolutely i agree that women could play i mean it's historical if you read the libyan history there they do have that all women and young men and of course they need to have the chance and the art of male but the way if i was innocent if we managed to to get to the military for i mean at the security stability then we will need to talk to each
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other but before that i think it is it would be quite risky you cannot really because you know any consolation it means that you need to talk about everything and you need to have a fair legal system you need to have. i mean a whole process that cannot be done when you when you are most of the country is i mean in stable and you know there is no rule of law whatsoever i cannot see this happening but i believe in reconciliation and i believe that it has to be a holistic approach but the blows not start from what happened in the 2019 conflict or 2000 and her corking conflict i believe that we need a holistic consolation that goes back since 1969 and we need to open the old wounds and heal the problems that you know already contributed to there are accumulating. issues of that we cannot really build the state without really
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addressing that issue that we have in the past thank you so much did you hear that huge sigh the alice just gave out. but. it was a depressing. it was a little want to listen to his usual sighs i just. thank you for the others mystics i as have a look down here on my laptop this is where you find and this is why you find hana and lost lost in the libya conversation that is definitely our for this is where you. find how the thank you for your comments and questions and the other case citing all flossy in next time and so watching everybody take a. april
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on al-jazeera from a food wave to the vaccine roll out we'll bring you the latest developments from around the world a year into the coronavirus pandemic $100.00 skeins rare behind the scenes access into the secretive world a japanese tsunami. could president idriss deby secure a 6th time in power join us on april 11th for that shot in action. the award winning our choice returns the stories of those striving to produce a negative impact on the planet has president joe biden kept his campaign promises we'll have special coverage and in-depth analysis of his 1st $100.00 days in the oval office april on iraq. from the al-jazeera london broadcast center to people in thoughtful conversation generally when i mean it's
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look about race and racism. with no host and no limitation alice asyut as structural racism built into part one of the shaheen and adam brotherhood's low paid people tend to be migrant labor and disproportionately women in care what the o.t. comes down to prejudice studio unscripted on al-jazeera a mineral central to the quest for clean energy a key ingredient for the production of electric car batteries cobalt extracting it is dangerous but profitable with global demand set to skyrocket people in power investigates claims that industrial mines obstructing the precious material needed for cleaner energy are in fact poisoning the environment with dire health consequences for those living in their shadow the cost of cobalt people in power on and just you know. what's most important to me is talking to people understanding what they are going through here and i just we believe everyone has
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a story worth hearing. 9 prominent hong kong activists are convicted for their role in 821000 protests including the so-called father of hong kong democracy at the media tycoon. alive adrian finnegan this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up. more distressing video of george floyd's fatal arrest proves overwhelming for witnesses at the trial of the.


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