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tv   The Stream  Al Jazeera  July 14, 2014 12:30pm-1:01pm EDT

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quite rightly they partied into the night. they went to extra time. they won 1-0, first time in 24 years. there's the website. enjoy. hi, i'm lisa fletcher, and you're in "the stream." from fighting in iraq to social media masters. the islamic state is giving a minute by minute window into their lives. the reason the group islamic state left al qaeda, we break down the differences between the two. later - every day iraqis trying to buy groceries, get their kids to school and go to work. how those day-to-day tasks
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present deadly challenges. my co-coast and digital producer is here bringing in your feedback. the group formerly known as i.s.i.s., now the islamic state group. it can be confusing. a goal is to give people a baseline on whether or not the group is, and how to do it. >> they've ban good at promoting islamic state. as we found out. the n.s.a. is spying on leaders. mohammed is a supporter of islamic state. tweet at me saying:
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the hashtag is arabic for islamic state. maybe i should feel commissionered or scared -- comforted or scared being trolled by them. there's no doubt that america has a stake in the crisis escalating. the group calling itself islamic state, formerly i.s.i.s., has not only been making headway in key iraqi cities, but on a battlefield everywhere can watch unfold in real time. [ ♪ music ] from youtube, twitter, facebook, info graphicses, the islamic state is executing a highly strategic social media campaign to spread its cause. it's nothing new for fighters to
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use the internet to form and recruit, this level is unprecedented and islamic state may be the most social media savvy rebel group. reportedly they are the best funded. there's a new theatre of war begging the question of whether it influences power or propaganda. how concerned should you be. joining us out of new york is a senior analyst at flashing point, a group monitoring websites for governments and businesses. for los angeles the director from the center for global digital cultures. this shows how new media technologies shapes movements. thank you for joining us. the social media campaign that islamic state launched is getting attention. other rebel groups used the platforms, what is different about what islamic state is doing, and how they are doing
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it? >> indeed. the colbert report had a recent story saying i.s.i.s. or the islamic state invade hashtag-is-thon. we are seeing a far more immediate engagement with social media tools, reaching people homes across the world. it's multi platform, multi actor based use, a variety of tools. we see jihadi techno sound cloud, the dawn app of mobile phones, the mash up of the michelle obama photograph. uses of varieties types of hash tags to hijack world audiences and photo hash tags. there's a variety of tools used to advocate for different types of agendas that are part of the islamic state. some of them are sympathetic, some are about inspiring fear
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and being strong and projecting strength. how sophisticated do you think the islamic state presence is compared to other groups? >> it's probable one of the most sophisticated terrorist groups to use social media. a great part of their followers, supporters, fighters, are young. they grew up in the digital social media technology world. they grew up with their hands on their mobile, their touch screen computers, tech savvy and able to utilize computer graphicses in ways we have not seen. by being prolific and being a propaganda machine with multiple levels, multiple mediums to reach the audience, and to those who are neutral and don't know whether to support it or not.
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it utilizes different aspects. part of it is just pure propaganda, whether it's speeches by top leaders ranging from that to having supporters, as ramesh said, put the graphics out, statistics about operations that are taking place by the minute. reporting from certain regions where a lot of media can't have access. we have the guys reporting from the field, minute by minute. this is one of the most sophisticated propaganda machines, probably in contemporary jihad post 9/11. >> you talk about sophistication and social media. check this out. these are either smath esers of the -- smathizers of the islamic state. we have a picture:
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they are drinking coke, eating lamb. and it says: then another: so, ramesh, this is a part of their digital footprint. they are more transparent than al qaeda. they are talking about cats, pepsi. what does it reveal about their personality and specific propaganda? >> much more of a youth culture-based movement as pointed out. it's really, really interesting. al qaeda and some of the other groups are considered old-fashioned compared to the practices of the group. they are trying to work every angle in terms of uses of platform, hijacking content and using different names. it's app interesting attempt to be cosmopolitan in a global and
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sed uctive way. there's nothing more odd and bezar and cosmopolitan than the cat picture, right. we see the group trying to create and generate an alternate notion of the global, of what the cosmopolitan should be in today's world. we seeing that in all types of manners. we are seeing a youth-based formation not just in terms of media practices, but how they are articulating the message using the tools. because you have 5,000 friend on facebook, doesn't mean they'll do anything for you. all the social media presence aside. what power and influence do you think islamic state has utilizing social media? >> like any organization, without having platforms, or spokespersons and podiums to bring the message to the
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audience, regardless of how big an organization you are, you will be an eventual failure, and i think i.s.i.s. or the islamic state understands this as much as any organization that is trying to keep the socialisation. you are able to reach a multitude of classifications or segments of society. whether to a western audience putting out propaganda videos or documents, or different language, from albanian, german, dutch, so forth, you reach multiple segments of society. at the same time you are customising that message for that specific audience. if you preach to a western audience the message is different to if you preach to
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those in syria or iraq. part of the success in the popat gander mash -- propaganda machine is customizing the message. >> no doubt - we are running out of time. i want one more thing in. this message out there is obviously powerful. it is perceived as a violent message. how should governments respond, particularly regional leaders like nouri al-maliki, or the gulf regimes? >> please, go ahead, first. please. okay. >> sorry. >> my $0.02 on this is this is a multily headed snake. if you cut off a system, the snake will grow new types of heads. you have to defeat the movement in the same cultural way on a different platform. remember many of the actors are
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youth born in the west themselves. this is a very complicated set of networks and governments would show devote cutting off the account. erica says: is twitter the new battlefield. how should the united states government respond? >> i'm a big believer in counterradicalization. when you cut off one head and another grows or multiple grows. i don't think we should cut the account. if anything, the windows into houses, how its followers adhere to the ideology, we have to have a counterradicalization online in the same - on the same platform that i.s.i.s. is using. we can have people who are providing insight on how to not
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join the group or reasons why we shouldn't join the group - whether it's killing other muslims, causing havoc in the region, there's no appearance for the recall of law. if the law is shown it's brutal and gruesome. we need to utilize on every op line medium to counter this rhetoric we are out of time, thank you to both of you. next - should the u.s. set its sites on the group islamic state as the new al qaeda. coming up we explain how their objectives and messages are more different than you think. and the iraqis trying to go about their routine. >> the situation is volatile. anything could happen at any time. we speak with those closest to the conflict.
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>> start with one issue ad guests on all sides of the debate. and a host willing to ask the tough questions and you'll get... the inside story ray suarez hosts inside story weekdays at 5pm et / 2pm pt only on al jazeera america [ ♪ music ] welcome back. we are discussing the continuing crisis in iraq. the group i.s.i.s., islamic state we're part of the al qaeda
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network. some say their tactics are more brutal. here to talk about that is a senior foreign policy fellow at st john's hopkins university. from washington d.c., a political scientist whose research focuses on sectarian, talking about transitions in iraq. islamic state used to be part of the al qaeda. why did they split, how are they different? >> normally with all the groups there are many reasons for the splitting, disagreement upon leadership or working on different project to other. i think that the splut happened when al qaeda disowned i.s.i.s., and then they said their tactics are - we don't approve of their
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tactics. which means they were extreme. you can imagine how extreme they are if al qaeda says they are too extreme. that's the reason they split. how does a group get political traction when they are too extreme for al qaeda. >> they get this traction because they are working with a certain population for their own means, and people see they are worth some goals. they may tactically accept them, hoping that once the goals are achieved, they can separate or get rid of them. i think it is unwise for any group to embrace and to host something like i.s.i.s., because as we have seen, dislodging them is completely easier said than done some people in the west compared al qaeda and the i.s.i.s. seems they have different
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target. can you explain that a little bit? >> yes. i think the dins between al qaeda -- difference between al qaeda and i.s.i.s. is related to the environment in which they were operating. and the operational differences are shaped political and idea logical differences. al qaeda is more a source of inspiration for jihadists around the world than an actual leadership of all groups related to it, in organization or ideological charts. particularly after the u.s. occupation of afghanistan, militarily and financially al qaeda was weakened. so its ability to control the worldwide network of jihad. al qaeda seems to target more westerners, and seems that islamic state doesn't mind if there are muslims as collateral damage. am i reading this wrong?
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>> exactly. i think i.s.i.s. is the latest incarnation of a group formed in iraq in 2004. led by a notorious leader. they pledged allegiance to al qaeda, osama bin laden, but differences, disagreements with al qaeda - there were letters exchanged between their leader and the leader of al qaeda, in which they disagreed about the actions that the group has taken, especially notorious indestruct ability and brutality. and the focus on targetting shiites. this is why i said i.s.i.s. was shaved and influenced by the conflict in iraq, a conflict shaped by the sectarian divide. >> we have a community. the goal is to seek goals and:
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islamic state unilaterally - by making the unilateral move, did they delegit mice their status in the eyes of muslims and potential sympathizers? >> i don't think so. i think the sympathizers are more excited about the idea that they have restored the calafat. i think they are moved to establish a caliphate fits into the differences that they were talking about between them and al qaeda. i think haraf is right in saying that these - this kind of split goes time and again, al qaeda is
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not interested in sectarian strife in the same way that i.s.i.s. is. they are established a caliphate, at least in their mind, there isn't such thing on the ground. we see that this is the essence of difference between al qaeda and i.s.i.s. al qaeda is more of an international group, not geographically attached to a certain place. it's more interested in causes rather than geographical areas. >> i'll have to stop you there. my apologies, we are out of time. thank you both for joining us. still ahead - how do iraqis think we should respond to the turmoil if at all. >> the current problems existing at the moment have been exacerbated by the u.s.'s
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invasion. families divided over religion and lack of basic needs. here from those talked about the most and having the least. >> i feel so utterly alone... >> you need to get your life together >> i'm gonna do whatever needs to be done... >> ya boy is lookin' out to becoming a millionaire... >> an intimate look at what our kids are facing in school and beyond 15 stories, 1 incredible journey >> in this envelope is my life right now... >> edge of eighteen coming september only on al jazeera america
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[ ♪ music ] welcome back. we are talking about the accelerating turmoil in iraq and joined by three iraqis on skype. a writer originally from baghdad, blogging for a popular iraqi website. a director of policy at the kurdish policy foundation and via phone, malabbing, a young activist. he asks we hide his identity out of concern for his safety. thank you for being here. malabbing, you asked that we
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don't identify you. what is happening on the yound in iraq that is -- ground in iraq that is making you afraid? >> to be honest, it's a precaution. what could happen here may jeopardise my safety to be honest. it's a precaution. you just can't be so sure about identity being given out. and probably would be intimidated or something. i just thought of it as a precaution. it's nothing soars. >> you are on the ground there. we have been talking about the group called islamic state. how are local populations reacting to them there? >> well, i can speak - i'm not
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sure up in some areas where they dominate. in my area, i can honestly say that the people are out and about basically. >> we have a lot of - go ahead. >> yes. hello. >> no, go ahead. we have a lot of community interest and community questions. people want to ask iraqis what is happening on the ground. mikey asks this question:. >> i want you to answer that question. >> absolutely not. it's not just about governing that people want.
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what i.s.i.s. want to endorse in society harms not only women, but essentially it's a rigid and extremist order that they want to enforce on society. in fact, weeks when they went into mosul they presented people with a list of things to do, especially women. one of which is not to leave the house unless you have a justification. they restricted women's movements and rights. it's a huge problem. >> akmed, do mainstream muslims see the group islamic state as hurting their cause? >> i think anyone with iq recognises that the islamic state or whatever they call themselves are, in fact, a terrorist group. using islamic jihadist groups to terrorize local populations have gone on since the '80s we are living in a proverbial i told you so moment.
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10 years ago people were saying don't occupy iraq, don't invade iraq, this is what will happen. everything is coming true. we see a situation where we look at the split up of the country, degradation of fundamental means of sub stinens, lack of huge job right. the only sentiment from iraq is young people want to get out of the country. this is the situation on the ground in iraq. i.s.i.s., al qaeda - it sound a bit like we are doing a celebrity rumour show, trying to get out who is doing what. the situation on the ground has been the same for 10 years in iraq, and worsening day by day. we have other areas in the region to look at, to get a wider and better context of what is happening in iraq. and, of course, speaking of terrorists we see the israelis and what they are doing right now, and how that has been impact on what is happening in iraq, and what is happening in
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syria. it's important to understand what is happening in iraq didn't start three or four weeks ago when a bunch of crazies took over armed checkpoints and weaponry. this has been going on for a long time. >> president obama announced a $5 billion fund for u.s. special forces to do counterterrorism training. is this the answer to the crisis? >> the u.n. authorities spent billions training the iraqi army and stabilizing the region. unfortunately the iraqi army fled. the problem is that the central government had enough warnings from the kurdish authorities, something in mosul, that there were insurgent groups and jihadists coming together to form what we see as i.s.i.s. they didn't take the warnings.
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in particular, even today they threatened the kurdish authorities and they responded saying it was a headquarters for the terrorists, which is not true. the problem is it's not just about armed men, it's about the central government ignoring not only the kurdish authorities but a significant part of the population. i don't think you'll need military training. you need a government that is inclusive of all different ethnic groups and sectarian groups in iraq. we have about 15 seconds left. are you optimistic about the future? >> absolutely optimistic. only because i know the resilience of iraqis. we have ensured genae side, three wars, thanks to america and others. we are well havesed. it's important for people to put
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it in context. all right. that's it for today. thank you to all of our guests. we'll see you online. [ ♪ music ] america. i'm del walters. these are the stories we're following for you. the international community now pushing for a cease fire. there are no allegations from ukraine that russia is involved in fighting in the eastern part of that country. plus new steps by the white house to confront the immigration crisis. asking now the states to pitch in.